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Top Takeaways

  1. Danna Bowman and Ginny Mahar are the founders of Thyroid Refresh
  2. Danna is the force behind Thyroid Nation, one of the most highly trafficked websites for expert info on thyroid health.
  3. Thyroid medication is the number 1 prescribed medication in the US.
  4. Danna believes environment toxins, stress, toxins in food supplies, and lack of sleep can lead to thyroid issues.
  5. Fluoride, bromine, and mercury are halogens that compete with iodine uptake, which the body uses to make thyroid hormones.
  6. Extreme fatigue, joint pain, depression, weight issues, and brain fog are all common symptoms of thyroid issues.
  7. If a medical practitioner suspects thyroid issues, they will perform the most simple, least expensive test called the TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone).
  8. This test is often not enough, so if the results are inconclusive and you continue to experience symptoms, you must put your foot down to receive a full thyroid panel.
  9. If your doctor refuses to do the full thyroid panel you must look for a doctor who will perform it elsewhere.
  10. 96 to 97 % of people with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto’s.
  11. Many people who have mercury toxicity cannot convert T4 into T3, which is the active form of the thyroid.
  12. Wendy believes many people need to take T3 to bypass this.
  13. Finding the right medication and optimizing the right medication is super important when tackling thyroid issues.
  14. Many women get an adrenal fatigue diagnosis, and a thyroid diagnosis post partum.
  15. You may need thyroid treatment if your TSH is 3 or a 4, but often a doctor wont prescribe a medication until your TSH is a 5 or a 6.
  16. Optimal ranges for conventional medicine are much wider than functional integrative medicine.
  17. It is important to look in your area for functional MDs, integrative MDs, osteopaths, and naturopaths.
  18. Thyroid Refresh is a fun way to approach your thyroid issues, learn about your thyroid, and discover ways to make it function optimally.
  19. Thyroid Refresh is mother site for their primary program, which is a game called Thyroid 30.
  20. Thyroid 30 is based on the common core tenants of a thyroid friendly lifestyle.
  21. Danna and Ginny broke these tenants into the 8 R’s or 8 daily rituals; remember, refuel, reactivate, repair, rejuvenate, reduce, relish, recharge.
  22. There is a lot of thyroid health info about what do to, but what their program does differently, is that it answers the questions about how to do it.
  23. The program provides accountability, so that people are motivated to think about their thyroid friendly lifestyle everyday.
  24. To learn more about their second Thyroid 30, thyroid wellness adventure, stop by com where you can click on the Thyroid 30 link. Also find them on Facebook and Instagram @thyroidrefresh.

Wendy M.: Hello, everyone. My name is Wendy Myers. Welcome to the Myers DetoxPodcast. You can learn more about detoxification at I started this podcast, because I want to educate people about the important of heavy metal toxicity and its underlying cause of many of your symptoms of fatigue, brain fog, sleep issues, poor libido, issues with fertility, so many health issues today that people are dealing with are caused by heavy metal toxicity. So, I want to educate you about that in this podcast and what you can do about it. The testing you can do, and detoxification protocols that you can do with the many, many experts that I interview on the show.

Wendy M.: Today, we have my friend Danna Bowman and Ginny Mahar on the show. We’re going to be talking about the thyroid testing your doctor isn’t telling you about. Lots of information about what you can do to heal your thyroid, what tests your doctor should be doing but isn’t typically. What kind of thyroid medication should you be on? What are the pros and cons of different type of thyroid medication? So much good information on the show today. If you’re feeling fatigued, depressed, maybe have anxiety, you’re having trouble sleeping. You’re having trouble … you’re gaining weight, you’re having trouble losing weight. Thyroid problems, thyroid issues, hypo thyroid or hyper thyroid could be at the root cause of that. Learn about that on the show today.

Wendy M.: I’m so thrilled, I’m so looking forward to the holidays this season. I am going to be going to Kuaui with my fiancé. I recently got engaged, so it’s a really, really happy. My fiancé’s name is Mitch and we just really have hit it off. I met him earlier this year, and we’re just really, really compatible. We have the same birthday. Our birthdays are both August 5th, so I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing but, so far it seems like a really, really good thing. We decided to go to Kuaui in Hawaii for Christmas. I’m so looking forward to that. I love Hawaii. It’s such a healing environment, such a wonderful energy there. Everyone’s so, so nice and I’m going to be getting some fun, some vitamin D and some sun today for the holidays. I hope you are doing something very relaxing, very stress free, very relaxing for the holidays. Spending some time with your family.

Wendy M.: I’m going to be doing a digital detox and getting a tan. That’s my plan. Today on the show we have Danna Bowman and Ginny Mahar. Danna Bowman is a thyroid refresh co-founder, and she’s the force of nature behind Thyroid Nation and Thyroid Nation Radio. Before her Hashimoto’s diagnosis, Danna was the owner of a successful event planning company and high intensity Zumba dance instructor. One fateful day her adrenals crashed, her energy evaporated, and she was forced re-evaluate her high stress lifestyle, like all of us. Danna leaned on her background in marketing and advertising to create Thyroid Nation, one of the most highly trafficked websites for expert information on thyroid health. Danna, her husband Travis and their two children recently relocated to North Carolina.

Wendy M.: Thanks to Danna’s vast network of connection, the team of experts behind Thyroid Refresh is an impressive force of love, light, and healing. The other co-founder on the show today is Ginny Mahar, she is the mom and recipe blogger formerly known as Hypothyroid Chef. After struggling with residual symptoms of Hashimoto’s for years, she embarked on her own process of adopting a thyroid specific diet and lifestyle. Within one year, she restored her vitality and cut her thyroid antibodies in half. Ginny a passionate advocate of supporting others in their journeys towards better health. Thyroid Refresh is the support platform that she wishes she had throughout her ongoing process of transforming herself from over stressed and chronically fatigued foodie to zenned out and energized health nut.

Wendy M.: She’s a cordon bleu chef, cooking instructor, writer, and entrepreneur. She lives with her husband, son, and terrier lab mix in beautiful western Montana. You can learn more about their thyroid program at Since you’re listening to this podcast, I know you’re very interested in heavy metal detoxification, and I wanted to give you a free detox checklist with a top 10 tips to detox that I’ve distilled after working with thousands of clients. If you wanna download this absolutely free checklist just simply go to

Wendy M.: Thank you guys so much for coming on the show.

Ginny M.: Hi, thanks so much for having us.

Wendy M.: So you guys are the founders of Thyroid Refresh, and we’re going to be talking today all about how to live a lifestyle to facilitate healthy thyroid function. So many people have thyroid issues today, thyroid medication is a number one prescribed medication, and it’s a big problem. Why don’t you enlighten us. Why are so many people having thyroid issues today?

Ginny M.: Well Danna and I are thyroid patients and what we created is a little bit unique in that it’s created by thyroid patients for thyroid patients. We lean on our advisory team of experts to offer professional health oriented, more medical, clinical type advice. Just speaking as a patient, one of the things that we see over and over is how our systems are just so inundated with environmental toxins. With stress. With all kinds of things that are in our food supply. Ingredients that our bodies aren’t designed to be able to even process. We’re not getting enough sleep. It’s like our systems are crying out, and I feel like it’s a canary in the coal mine thing. Maybe similar to people having more reproductive issues where our systems are just saying red flag.

Ginny M.: We have to stop, pause and really examine how we’re living our lives so that we can continue to thrive and feel vibrant and optimize our health, and our thyroid health.

Danna B.: I think we have to put a balance on things. Here we were going for convenience. Everyone was industrial revolution and here we are trying to make things go faster and make things better and more efficient. In the process, or the meantime, we’ve hurt ourselves in the process. I think as a society we have to find the balance for that. Right now it’s like really tipped over here against humans feeling good and healthy and safe. It’s in the water supply, it’s in our air. You really can’t escape it and so I feel like as a society we just went okay, we’re going to go this way and now we gotta bring it back. It’s scary a little bit.

Ginny M.: We love to research, and we try to be informed and empowered patients. You can probably speak to this better but, what I hear and read, most often is the points to environmental toxins as being this catalyst to thyroid disfunction. Would you agree with that Wendy?

Wendy M.: Oh yeah. One hundred percent. I mean fluoride blocks the production of thyroid hormones and chlorine in the water that we’re showering in, most people in the United States, that blocks thyroid hormones. It blocks iodine uptake into the thyroid, and it competes with iodine. The chlorine and fluoride and bromine. They’re halogens that compete with the iodine uptake in the thyroid to make our thyroid hormones. There’s a lot of things stacked against us in producing thyroid hormones. Also, Mercury, a huge one, anyone eating, guess what? You’re going to have lots and lots of mercury that’s inhibiting thyroglobulin production and that’s the basis of making thyroid hormones. Almost everyone has these toxins in them so, it’s no surprise that so many people have thyroid issues and are prescribed thyroid medication.

Wendy M.: For anyone listening, why don’t we talk about some of the symptoms of thyroid dysfunction? What are some of the things that people may be feeling? So if anyone’s listening, they can identify if perhaps they have a thyroid issue and may wanna go get it checked out.

Danna B.: For me, the biggest one was fatigue. Extreme fatigue. I couldn’t figure out why. So for me fatigue, and of course there’s like hundreds of symptoms but, that was the one and brain fog. To where I felt like what’s going on? What is wrong with me? I can’t … I just thought it was me. I thought well I’m getting older or this. You attribute to that which is another problem we face when we head to the doctor. Of course, I had all the little things but, those were the big things. Weight gain or weight issues, I wasn’t ever able to move the scale in any direction, really very well. For me it was those three things were the key symptoms that I had.

Ginny M.: Those are really common symptoms, and I share all of those and more. Joint pain, depression, but we are both Hashimoto’s patients, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, auto immune hypo thyroidism. The body is mistakenly sending out antibodies and attacking its own thyroid tissue. I love the analogy that our resident thyroid expert Mary Schulman makes about the thyroid being the gas in the body. If you’re hypothyroid, you don’t have enough gas. If you’re hyperthyroid, it’s like you have too much gas. We focus on an audience of people who have thyroid disease in general. Those symptoms can tip one way or the other.

Ginny M.: Someone with hyperthyroidism might have a rapid heartbeat. They might find themselves being really hot. They might be more prone to anxiety. State of being over revved. Really hard to sleep, things like that. It’s like a metabolic imbalance in either direction. That needle can go in either direction for people. I think it’s important just to mention you canhave…

Danna B.: You can be having both symptoms.

Ginny M.: Yes.

Danna B.: You could have fatigue and brain fog and all that and still be with hyperthyroidism you could have Grave’s disease and still have the same symptoms. They overlap, that’s exactly right. One of the things I’m going to mention to you both is I have met three people, one I already knew but, know three people who have both, in the last two or three weeks, who have both Grave’s disease and Hashimoto’s.

Ginny M.: Yes.

Danna B.: I mean to hear that so quickly or close together, it’s kind of scary.

Ginny M.: Well and Hashimoto’s patients can go from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid depending on what’s happening with the antibodies and what’s going on. Is the thyroid tissue being destroyed releasing all this stuff in to the system that’s throwing you out of wack.

Wendy M.: Yeah, and people feel like they’re going crazy. I mean we as women are more effected by this, can really feel like they’re mentally unstable and it affects your relationships because you’re just going back and forth depression, anxiety, and it’s not you, you’re not to blame, it’s just there’s something biologically off in your body that needs to be addressed. So many people get referred to their mental health professionals when we’re having a physical problem because the doctors just don’t know the test to do or don’t know what to look for. Let’s talk a little bit about that, about the correct testing that needs to be done that so many doctors, conventional medical practitioners when they suspect thyroid issues will do very, very simple, the least expensive test called the TSH thyroid stimulating hormone. Why is that not enough?

Ginny M.: Do you want me to take that Danna?

Danna B.: Yeah, go for it.

Ginny M.: Okay. The THS test is the first test that people typically get from their MDs when they’re diagnosed and it does help indicate whether you’re in a hypo or hyperthyroid state but, we really can’t stress it enough that it is just the beginning and really you need a complete thyroid panel that also tests to see how your T3 and T4 is doing. T4 is what we’re medicated with for example when we’re hypothyroid patients. Well, is your body converting that T4 into T3 which is the active form of thyroid hormone? A doctor needs to test you for that to see. What can happen is that a hypothyroid patient might look perfect on paper, the labs look perfect, but the patient is still coming in and saying I still don’t feel like myself. I’m still fatigued, I’m still waking up everyday tire. I feel like my spark is going. I’m quoting myself here. This is my story. I went through this for four years.

Ginny M.: This is the common story. This is why Danna and I are so passionate about trying to help and advocate for other thyroid patient is that, that’s the standard of care. You get your THS tested, maybe you’re diagnosed hypothyroid, you get put on synthetic thyroid hormone and as long as your labs look good, then in the doctor’s eyes, you are good. Anything else is the aging process or it’s all in your head or it’s your fault. There’s something you’re doing wrong. You need to eat less, exercise more. It’s definitely can be a very emotionally frustrating journey for thyroid patients.

Danna B.: That’s what we really need to be not just informed patients but passionate patients. We can be informed but, then you can be like okay, I’m informed, and I know that I need to ask for more than just the THS. I need to ask for a thyroid panel but people sometimes don’t have that oomph for that, whatever it takes to keep moving forward with it. Let’s say you go in and you ask, I need a thyroid panel. They say well we’re going to do the THS and you say, I really need the thyroid panel. They say well we’re going to do the THS and you say no, I really need the thyroid panel. You need to be … passionate just the nicest way I can say. Adamant.

Wendy M.: You can put your foot down.

Danna B.: Yeah and not only do we have to be informed, we have to really mean it.

Ginny M.: And if they refuse to do a full thyroid panel, it’s time to look for another doctor.

Wendy M.: Yeah.

Ginny M.: It really is. So four years I went through this not knowing. We talked about T4 and T3. Is my body even converting the medication into the active form of thyroid hormone? There’s another really important piece I wanna mention before we move on from the topic of testing. That’s testing your thyroid antibodies. Your TPO and TPG antibodies which are going to indicate whether or not you have an autoimmune condition like Hashimoto’s. That is an incredibly important and empowering piece of the puzzle as a thyroid patient. My doctor, like many people’s doctor, never tested me for that. I started doing my own research because for four years I was that patient saying I don’t feel like myself. Should I be eating differently? What am I doing wrong? I was on Weight Watcher’s, I was exercising five days a week. I couldn’t drop the weight, I was tired all day, every day.

Ginny M.: I was sick for months at a time every cold and flu season. On multiple rounds of antibiotics. My immune system wasn’t working. Every time I’d say does this have something to do with my thyroid? No. No, no, no. No way. Your labs look fine so you’re fine. Getting that piece of information that I indeed had Hashimoto’s and then this whole world of autoimmune information opening up was so crucial in my healing and in so many other people’s healings. We hear these stories every day and there’s a lot of statistics out there about how many people have Hashimoto’s and I’ve seen and heard as high as 97% or people with hypothyroidism in the US, indeed have Hashimoto’s. And so many of us don’t even know that. That’s crazy to me.

Danna B.: I wanna tell a different aspect of that same story because it just dawned on me that like you said, when you learned you had Hashimoto’s it opened up a whole can or worms so to speak. For me, I leaned I had Hashimoto’s immediately. No can of worms was opened because I wasn’t an informed patient. Nor was I asking questions. I feel like there’s a lot of people out there, it’s not a great thing to admit right now but, this was part of my journey. I was not informed and he didn’t say it was an autoimmune disease, he said you have Hashimoto’s and basically that’s hypothyroidism. I Googled hypothyroidism and that’s what I went on. I didn’t realize and nor did he say anything about lifestyle or food can help or exercise or any of that kind of information that would’ve been very helpful. I also had adrenal issues. There’s a little bit more to it for me but, I did not … it didn’t open a can of worms or the door or the window or anything for me because I was just like okay, no I know, I’m going to take my pill, I’m going to get on the plane, I’m going to go to my Zumba convention and I’m going to be fine.

Wendy M.: No matter what diagnosis you get, you’re only going to get the pill. You’re only going to get thyroid hormone replacement. You’re not going to get any education whatsoever on diet or lifestyle or all the other different things that you can be doing to attempt to reverse the condition, the Hashimoto’s autoimmune thyroiditis. Let’s talk a little bit about medication. We’re certainly not medical doctors, we’re not trying to advise anyone on medication but, there is some differentiations that you should know so that you can be an informed patient and tell your doctor what to do. They love that don’t they?

Danna B.: They do love that. They do.

Wendy M.: Yeah. One thing that I found out that’s really, really important to know is that many people if they have mercury toxicity, that if they take a T4 medication or even nature thyroid or natural thyroid medication like nature thyroid or west thyroid or what have you. Armor thyroid. Many people cannot convert the T4 to T3 which is the active form of the thyroid if they have mercury toxicity. In my opinion, I feel like a lot of people need to be on T3 specifically to bypass that whole mechanism so that they can get the active form of the thyroid that they need to have a healthy metabolism and get the brain function back. It was really for me the light bulb turning on because, many people take T4, nature thyroid or whathaveyou and they don’t feel any different and the doctor gives them more of the medication and so that’s why a lot of people if you’re taking thyroid medication, you’re not getting the results or your labs aren’t correcting into the good ranges that the doctor’s looking for.

Wendy M.: You may not be on the right medication.

Danna B.: Right, and that’s really common and there’s a couple different ways to look at it. For me, I definitely wasn’t on the right medication. I was taking T4 only medication. In the very beginning that’s all I could get living in another country and so that’s what I took and that is when my door opened actually because I realized I wasn’t getting better. I wanted to feel better so I had to make the decision to get online and start looking for other options, other alternatives and then now I’m on Naturethroid and things started settling down for me once I was given both T3 and T4. Some of the people I know, which is really why we’re so passionate about this, really just don’t get it and they just think okay, I’m taking my medicine, so that’s for my thyroid, check, just like I’m taking my cholesterol medicine, they don’t relate it to how they feel.

Danna B.: If you’re not feeling better, then maybe you need to talk to your doctor about a different medication. Really … your body wants to be in homeostasis, your body wants to feel good. Your body wants to … it just keeps trying to do that.

Ginny M.: Yeah, finding the right medication and optimizing medication is super important, and it’s good to know about some of the different options out there. We talked about the T4, that’s the typical step one synthetic thyroid hormone. In addition to that, there can be other just T3 only medications like Cytomeland as Wendy was saying, that’s really important and can be helpful for people who aren’t converting. The Danna mentioned the … well she’s on Naturethroid, that’s also … a lot of people call those kinds of medications NDT or natural desiccated thyroid. Those are brands like Naturethroid, Armor and they are created from like a bio identical hormone created from the thyroid gland of pigs. It’s got T4, T3, T2, T1 and there’s a ton of people out there who absolutely swear by this.

Ginny M.: This fixed everything, I was on Levothyroxine which is a synthetic T4 generic Synthroid, something like that and then when I switched to this, all my residual symptoms went out the window. I tried that and for me it did not work, and I’m currently taking Tirosint, which is like a hypo-allergenic synthetic T4. I’m still tinkering with it. It’s been at literally two years of just what if we try this and what if we try that. This is a process. For a lot of us, this is a lifelong diagnosis. It can take some patience and that research and tinkering but, there are a lot of options out there to chose from and there’s also the matter of getting those tests and having a physician who is willing to look at those tests and say where can we make things better for you here? How can we really help you feel optimal?

Danna B.: I was just going to say I keep coming back to the fact that people, I guess we get so conditioned that you’re just … you listen to your doctor and you take the pill and that’s what you’re doing and that the feeling good is meh, not part of the deal. We really have to advocate for ourselves. You’re taking the medicine but you wanna feel good. That’s the whole point.

Ginny M.: Well we’re trained to just take the words of our doctors as gold and not question it and I think everything should be questioned. I think everything should be open for discussion. It’s part of being an empowered patient. I really feel that we have to … in the words of Molly Hammel, she’s one of the other thyroid warrior goddesses that we’ve had write for us and she’s…

Wendy M.: Oh, I love that.

Ginny M.: Yeah, she’s wonderful and the way she puts it is you need to learn to trust the expert within. How many of us have gotten disconnected from that inner voice that says, like me for four years going I know something’s wrong but, then it gets overridden by that voice that says, my doctor says there’s something wrong with me, I must be doing something wrong. It’s not my thyroid because that’s what she said. She wasn’t a bad doctor, it was this is the standard of care in conventional medical treatment for hypothyroid patients. It really took me taking the reigns and doing my own research and asking some harder questions and ultimately finding a new doctor.

Wendy M.: And also you have to take into account your doctor’s training. They just don’t know anything about mercury. They don’t know very much about toxins affecting the thyroid. They don’t know about supporting lifestyle for a healthy thyroid. They don’t know anything about nutrition typically. That’s probably 90% of conventional medical doctors. You are consulting with someone who has very limited knowledge about how to get the thyroid working correctly and supporting its function, like you said, you have to trust the expert within and really advocate yourself. Get the tests that you need, put your foot down. If they won’t do it, find a different doctor who’s more relaxed. Some doctors do not wanna be told what to do. They don’t wanna be told what tests that they should be running and things like that and that happens. You really have to advocate for yourself.

Ginny M.: Really quick I was going to say our thyroid resident expert, resident thyroid expert Mary Schulman, one of her favorite tricks of the trade is to write a letter, a note saying I just want to say I’ve asked for this test and or I’ve asked for this medication and my doctor is not going to prescribe this to me or give this test or whatever. I sign it and then you say, could you sign it too to the doctor too and keep it in my file? She said nine times out of ten, they’ll end up doing the test. Or let me try the medicine. That’s just a little trick.

Wendy M.: That’s awesome.

Danna B.: Yeah, right? And a really interesting detail too is when I finally asked for a full thyroid panel and went to my doctor and I asked her to run that and she agreed to do it. When I got the results from the nurse about a week later, she said everything is in the normal range except your TPAO antibodies are elevated. I said oh, so I have Hashimoto’s then and she said yes, it’s just as the doctor expected. She expected it because so many people with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto’s but she didn’t test me for it or educate me on it because it wouldn’t have changed her treatment protocol of that synthetic T4 for the foreseeable future until for the rest of my life or until somehow my thyroid situation resolveditself which often it doesn’t.

Danna B.: Even though it wouldn’t have change her treatment protocol, I think as a patient I want people and even doctors to know, it would’ve changed mine a lot. Knowing that and having that information, it was after four years of being sick and tired and raising my newborn son, I was diagnosed right after, post partum, I would give anything to get those four years back but, it was a matter of weeks from getting that information, finding a new doctor. I work with a natural path that’s been wonderful and a matter of weeks before we found some underlying root causes. We looked at micro nutrient deficiencies, we talked about dietary changes I needed to be making. Lifestyle changes, all these things and boom, one day, especially dealing with … I had a gut dysbiosis was one of my underlying root causes. We treated that and it was literally from the time of starting treatment until about 48 hours later, it was like somebody flicked the light switch on, back on inside me after four years of that light switch being off.

Danna B.: I literally got my life back. It is possible.

Wendy M.: Yes, yes, that’s really common for women after having a child. Their adrenals and thyroid are shot and simply because the child just takes everything out of you. All of your nutrients, all of your minerals and it’s stressful having a baby and being awake at night and it’s just a stressful experience. It’s hard on the body and many women get adrenal fatigue diagnosis post partum. That was certainly the case for me. That’s a couple years after having my child or maybe about a year after I realized that I was having thyroid issues and went to my doctor and got tested. Also, when people get tests and they get the results back from the doctor, you wanna get those test results yourself because how the doctor interprets them in determining whether or not you need treatment can be very different because you may need treatment, you may need to change your lifestyle and get on a medication if your TSH is like three or four.

Wendy M.: Where the doctor won’t prescribe it unless the THS is five or six. Where he warrants that the lab ranges are out of range enough to begin treatment. Why do you wanna wait to begin treatment until your thyroid is completely toast.

Danna B.: Right.

Ginny M.: Why would you wanna wait? Right.

Danna B.: When you look at the optimal ranges for conventional medicine, they’re much wider than the optimal ranges for functional and integrated medicine. For anybody listening who’s okay, this is me, what do I do? Look in your area for functional MDs, integrated MDs, osteopaths, naturopaths. Those are the rocks that you wanna start looking under to find a doctor who’s likely to be more willing to help you do this work of reclaiming your health. There is a lot you can do. We’re here, we’re living proof.

Wendy M.: So you THS should be between one and two, correct?

Danna B.: Yeah, that’s generally were most people feel the best generally. There’s no set for anybody, we’re all bio-individual. That’s generally where people feel their best. That’s what the functional doctors look for. They want it to be in between one and two somewhere. I have a friend whose hers is less than one and she feels good there. It’s all about feeling good, your body wants to feel good. Help it.

Wendy M.: Everyone’s going to be a little bit different, we all have a unique and different set point but if it’s like THS was three or above, there’s no point in waiting until it’s five or six to begin a treatment protocol of some type or lifestyle changes.

Danna B.: Right, right, right.

Wendy M.: Why don’t we talk a little bit about your program Thyroid 30, you created this program to teach people the best lifestyle to support optimal thyroid function. Why don’t you tell us a little about that?

Danna B.: And make it fun.

Wendy M.: Yes.

Danna B.: That was the goal, to make it fun. So much of what we read and hear and learn when we’re on this journey is not fun and a little depressing and overwhelming to the Nth degree. Ginny and I were like, let’s try to make it fun. That’s when came together, I’ll let Ginny finish but, that was one of the main things. We wanted to help people simplify their lifestyle, their thyroid friendly lifestyle so that it wasn’t overwhelming and we wanted to make it fun. That’s why we created Thyroid Refresh, the home site for our revolutionary program which is actually a game. Thyroid 30.

Ginny M.: Yeah we based it on these common core tenants of a thyroid friendly lifestyle so, we’ve got shelves full of books written by incredible doctor and experts and there’s the common threads. Everybody has their own spin but, we took the common threads … what we call them is the eight daily rituals. One is remember, did you remember to take your medications and supplements? Two is refuel, that’s your diet and what are eating? Are you avoiding inflammatory foods? Are you figuring out what your unique bio-individual dietary needs are and adhering to those guidelines? Three is reactivate. That’s 10 minutes of daily movement, physical activity of some kind. Four is repair. Did you do one thing to day to support you gut health? Five is rejuvenation, that’s did you spend 10 minutes today on self care or stress reduction, stress management? Six is reduce. Did you do one thing today to reduce toxins in your body, in your diet, in your life?

Danna B.: Number six is Wendy Myers for me now.

Ginny M.: Yeah, right. Seven is relish, which where you get a point each day for checking in with your team. Players participate on a team, they don’t have to find other random people. You get into the game, and we have a team finder, so they can go by often the title of the team might give them some clues. Hashimoms or something like that. Moms with Hashimoto’s or things like that so people can find the right fit for them. Then the last one is recharge. You set a sleep goal and did you meet that sleep goal? That’s going to require that you look at your sleep habits, your sleep hygiene. Things like that. The way that we’re different, there’s a lot of programs out there for thyroid patients but, Danna and I wanted to … there’s so much information out there about what to do, but I think what our program does differently is we answer that question of how to do it.

Ginny M.: Say somebody is working with you and you can go in and create your own Wendy Myers Thyroid 30Detox Challenge or whatever and you can have that team be public or private. It can be open or closed experience depending on what you’re going for. Then people login each day, and they score themselves on each of these eight daily rituals. We’re not saying you have to eat this, and you have to do it this way. Step one it’s like you take your program, you take the recommendations of your chosen expert. We do offer some guidance, we don’t just throw you out there blind.

Danna B.: Willy nilly.

Ginny M.: Right. A lot of us are working with people that are saying you gotta cut out gluten, and cut out dairy and you have to reduce your stress and you need to prioritize your sleep and you need to do all these things. Okay, how? That’s the question that we answer. When people go in and they score themselves on these things each day, and they connect with other people who know what it’s like and are in there cheering each other on and sharing little recipes, tips. I did this workout today. Whatever it is. You have that accountability. It provides accountability so people are motivated to think about this stuff each day.

Ginny M.: It was funny when we were beta testing it, my husband did it with us and he doesn’t have a thyroid issue and he was like it’s actually … he’s not our ideal customer.

Danna B.: Not at all.

Ginny M.: I found myself really thinking about am I going to not get any exercise today? Yeah I wouldn’t get my point today for reactivate if I don’t do something. If I eat this or drink that, it’s going to ding my refuel score. It’s all about looking at our whole life picture and all of our habits and all of those little choices that you know add up to such powerful, big changes and results in our overall wellness. That’s what we do and we just had our first one last fall and the feedback was absolutely incredible. People were … it was so incredibly just precious for Danna and I after all the work we’ve put into creating. To hear people say this taught me so much, this changed my life. I feel like myself again. It is possible.

Ginny M.: We have to get that expert help and guidance. We’re not here to … it’s not a medical program. We’re not here to replace anyone’s doctor’s advice. We’re here to say you’re working with someone or do you have a book that you got or there’s a program, a more clinical program you signed up for online? This is how you can implement all those recommendations successfully and sustainably. When the 30 days ends, it doesn’t just go out the window. This is like a … it happens seasonally so, people can come back again and again and make little stair steps of progress in ultimately adopting what we like to call a thyroid friendly lifestyle.

Wendy M.: You’re right, when you go on the internet or you read a book, there’s so much information do this, take that, eat this food, don’t eat this food, take this supplement and all these different things but, it’s like where do you start?

Ginny M.: Yes.

Wendy M.: Rome wasn’t built in a day, you’re trying to live a detox friendly lifestyle, or a thyroid friendly lifestyle, or fix whatever health issue you’re trying to address. You have to do things one at a time. One step at a time. You can’t fix everything in your life at once but, you do this over 30 days or a few years and it’s amazing the small incremental changes, how those turn into just feeling so much better.

Danna B.: And it makes you present with all of that. It makes you very present in the moment because you’re … each day’s a new day so you get points and things for every day and it’s not about winning. It’s about making progress for yourself. It makes you have to be very present which I think a lot of the Americans need to work on.

Ginny M.: Well and then you get recognized for that participation and performance with rewards and badges and things like that so, we’ve really tried to do something different for thyroid patients and this is because I was using a more generic whole health program when I was going through my own intensive healing odyssey. I say that like it’s something past tense but, for so many of us, this is … it’s a lifestyle. It’s lifelong and it is a lifestyle. I was chatting with Danna, we had just connected and I was like maybe I’ll do some recipes, we’re talking about maybe getting some recipes up on thyroid Nation, I was like I’m about to sign up for this program again and I really wish they had something like this that was for thyroid patients. It was like ding, and boom.

Danna B.: That’s it, a year and a half later.

Ginny M.: We just were like we have to do this. We created the program that we wished had as thyroid patients. We call it a game but, it’s not Candy Crush guys.

Danna B.: Not it’s not Candy Crush but, it is a game and you do get rewards and points and we try to make it fun like that so you can feel the accountability and also it’s not life or death or anything. You’re not going to get shot in the game or anything like that.

Wendy M.: Your thyroid explodes.

Danna B.: Right. But yeah, we wanted to make it fun and we wanted to make it accountable and we wanted to make it something we wished we had.

Wendy M.: Even if you’re 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, you still want those gold stars. You still want them.

Danna B.: Yeah, you do want the gold stars. You still want them and we wanted to make sure people like you Wendy could have patience doing this program for a very affordable price if they’re working with you and they’re doing some detox and things like that. We wanted them to be able to bring their Wendy Myers experience onto the Thyroid 30 platform.

Wendy M.: Well tell us where we can do the game. Play the game and sign up.

Danna B.: We have our second wellness adventure. We have four a year. I guess 2019 will start the beginning. We’ll have four in 2019. We will be launching our second wellness adventure in January, the doors open January third. We will have our second wellness adventure so, stop by, you can click on the Thyroid 30 link, you can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Instagram, you can follow along with our story, Instagram’s fun. Kind of like a game, no, so you can check us out all those places and be on my team. No.

Wendy M.: Great.

Danna B.: We have lots of great teams. It would be great to have a Wendy team.

Ginny M.: Anybody can.

Danna B.: Yeah, anybody can. We had a mother daughter do it together who started their own team. I thought that was really sweet and yeah.

Wendy M.: Why don’t you tell us anything that maybe we haven’t discussed today in regards to thyroid health. Is there anything, any messages that you wanna communicate to the listeners?

Danna B.: For me it’s all about steps and taking it one day at a time and really not setting yourself up for failure, setting yourself up for success. Today, you had an Oreo cookie and you know you shouldn’t have, or whatever it is, don’t be okay, that’s it, I’m done. I can’t continue because we do. We do that, we beat ourselves up. My diet’s over, that’s it, now we’re going to go have pizza. You can start over the next day. If it’s sleep, if you didn’t have good sleep last night and you’re like okay, that’s it, I’m just, I tried, don’t give up. Baby steps, micro steps really do matter.

Wendy M.: Okay guys, thank you so much for coming on the show. Everyone thank you so much for listening and tuning in. I hope you have a wonderful holiday and just such a pleasure to be able to do this podcast every week and help to educate you guys about how to make those baby steps to improve your life and in your health. Thank you so much for tuning in and we’ll talk to you next week in the new year.

Danna B.: Yeah.

Ginny M.: Thanks for having us Wendy.

Danna B.: Bye.