Transcript #429 How to Change Your Mindset to Get the Life That You Want with Jason Goldberg
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- Find out what’s in store on this Myers Detox Podcast with Jason Goldberg, who joins the show to talk about how you can change your mindset to break free of the thoughts and emotions that keep your down, so that you can lead yourself to the life that you want. Jason discusses so many amazing techniques and ideas that can help you create the change you want in life. If you’ve been feeling sort of stuck or depressed, this is the episode for you!
- Find out how Wendy and Jason met at a public speaking even, and why Jason finds public speaking so important for what he does.
- Learn about the first steps you need to take in order to create the change you seek in life.
- Learn more about Jason’s awesome Jason Goldberg is Ruining Podcasting Podcast, and some of the guests he has on the show.
- Hear some of the inspirational stories from some of Jason’s podcast guests.
- Learn more about how Jason believes we need to look at ourselves and the world in order to break out of negative thinking.
- Learn more about some of the techniques that you can use to deal with internal conflicts that come up.
- Find out why your relationship with resistance is such a key element of changing mindset.
- Learn more Jason’s relationship with life, and how this helps him handle its ups and downs.
- Learn more about the best ways to break free of having a victim mentality, and begin to be a self-leader.
- Find out Jason’s take on the law of attraction and how it relates to one’s perspective.
- Find out how you can take the role of an activist in order to create the development that you seek in life.
- Learn more about Jason’s book Prison Break and how it distills the ability of self-leadership.
- Learn more about Jason’s approach to taking on depression.
Wendy Myers: Hey, everyone. How are you doing? I’m Wendy Myers of myersdetox.com. I have a great show today with my friend, Jason Goldberg. I met him about seven years ago at an event on how to be a better public speaker, so I could, you know, communicate better with you guys. It was a great event and made a lot of good friends out of that, including Jason. And I wanted him to come on the show to talk about his book, Prison Break, and how to, kind of lead yourself, how to change your mindset, how to get what you want out of life, and a really interesting show today.
Wendy Myers: Jason, he’s so motivational and inspirational, he’s so fun, and this is such a good show. So if you’re kind of feeling stuck, if you feel like you’re having depression, you’re just kind of feeling like you have this inertia that you just can’t really break out of, and you’re not really trying to, you know, transform your life, you know, change your relationship, or your job, or what have you, Jason has a lot of really, really good tips on how to create that change that you want in your life. And it’s kind of counterintuitive to a lot of the narratives out there.
Wendy Myers: And also, you guys, if you are also looking for transformation or you’re concerned about, you know, emotional trauma or your emotions are really holding you back, I’ve created a new program called The Emotional Detox Program. It’s coming out soon and you can learn more about that at emo-detox.com. I know so many of you guys struggle with, you know, you think you’re struggling with your health or you feel like you’re healthy, but you just wake up, kind of feeling gray and blah, you just, you can’t really access, like that joy that, you know, you maybe seek in your life. This was me for many, many years. I’ve done a lot of searching, a lot of research into all the current pubmed, all the current research out there on how do you overcome emotional trauma? How do you be happy? How do you wake up and feel really good every day?
Wendy Myers: So, I delved into the research and found that sound therapy, bioenergetics, using biofield tuning forks are ways to, kind of, access those emotional traumas that are in your energy field, and vibrate that frequency out of your energy field and release it forever. This is in the conventional research done by conventional medical doctors. I mean, Dr. Carlos Ventura. So, lot of incredible research in the emotional detox program, so check it out at emo-detox.com.
Wendy Myers: So, our guest today, Jason Goldberg, is a mindset mentor and a leadership coach for celebrities, change makers, and CEOs. He’s also the host of The Jason Goldberg is Ruining Podcasting Podcast. He’s also the author of the number one international bestseller on leadership, entitled “Prison Break”. And he’s the creator of the Playful Prosperity and Competition Proof Business Immersion programs. Jason’s been featured on media outlets, including ABC, CBS, and Fox, as well as teaching on the Mindvalley and SoulPancake platforms.
Wendy Myers: He’s also founded multiple startups, including one partnership with NASA and the spatial program. So, he now focuses on blending his signature mix of simple and transformational wisdom, captivating storytelling, practical business mentorship, and belly busting humor to make personal growth less personal growthy, and to leave everyone he meets at least 5% more joy than when he found them. He’s also a sought-after international speaker and host.
Wendy Myers: Jason has shared the stage with some of the world’s greatest thought leaders and innovators in human potential and performance, including Jason Silva, Dr. Sean Stevenson, Don Miguel Ruiz, who wrote The Four Agreements, Vishen Lakhiani who’s the CEO of Mindvalley, Steven Kotler ”Stealing Fire”, Marisa Peer who’s a UK psychotherapist to the stars, and so many others that he hopes will impress you if these other ones don’t.
Wendy Myers: You can learn more about Jason and his incredible work at thejasongoldberg.com.
Wendy Myers: Jason, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah, thanks for having me. I just stumbled into a random Zoom room and there you were, so I figured we may as well have a conversation. Why not?
Wendy Myers: Yeah, we’ll just do a podcast while we’re here. Yeah, I met you at one of Sean Stevenson’s events, How to Be a Better Speaker. He’s an amazing, amazing person who passed on sadly last year. But tell us a little bit about why you were there at that public speaking event. I want to talk about your new book. I want to talk about a lot of stuff because you’re a very, very inspirational person, very happy person, and this is going to be a really fun show.
Jason Goldberg: Well, the inspiration is accidental. So, if you got some of that, that was a total accident. Yeah, I mean, I was at Sean’s event. Sean was a dear friend of mine, and I was at the event just to continue my storytelling abilities, to continue to grow my storytelling abilities. He was such an amazing storyteller, one of the greatest storytellers I’ve personally ever known for sure. And even of storytellers that I don’t know personally, he’s still one of the best.So, yeah, that’s what I was there for was just to increase my storytelling abilities.
Jason Goldberg: What brought you there, by the way? I’m curious now that you asked me now, I’m curious about you.
Wendy Myers: Yeah , you know, I wanted to learn to be a better speaker as well like , you know, I see really inspirational speakers doing like, you know, Ted talks and other things, and there’s just, and it’s a learned skill for a lot of people, so, I just wanted to learn how to be a better speaker. So, that’s why I was there.
Jason Goldberg: It’s always, I mean, it’s always a good thing to learn storytelling and speaking and everything else because it’s, you know, it can be used in every area of your life. It’s not just a business thing and it’s not just if you want to be on stages and do Ted talks, it’s a matter of just being able to communicate effectively with people in your world. And so, I think everybody can benefit from it. It’s like everybody can benefit from therapy, everybody can also benefit from learning how to be a better speaker.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, because everyone needs therapy for sure.
Jason Goldberg: Everybody needs therapy.
Wendy Myers: They need to become an expert in their neuroses, I think.
Jason Goldberg: Of course, a 100%, and that’s always difficult too though. This is, I think, one of the distinctions between therapy and coaching. A lot of people will talk about, “Oh, therapists look backwards, and coaches look forward.” I don’t know that it’s as simple as that. I think they both can do both. But one of the things that I’ve noticed personally, that’s been more helpful for me, and I get a lot of benefit out of therapy as well, but depending on the therapist, sometimes the way we see the world or the way that we navigate our lives somehow becomes a pathology, everything becomes a pathology and it’s all like a disease that we need to fix. And it just makes the entire process of transformation, in my personal experience, more serious and more heavy than it needs to be.
Jason Goldberg: There’s already enough heavy, serious stuff going on. Why should we evoke more suffering than whatever’s already available to us every day?And so, I think that’s a good thing to look at too, is just, you know, anything that we may be struggling with, to look at it as a description of what’s happening and not a diagnosis of what’s happening.
Wendy Myers: Yeah and talk about that. So, you talk about this in your book, Prison Break, about transformation. That’s what I think so many people are looking for, is transformation, they want to improve their life in some way. Where does someone start when they’re trying to maybe change careers, or change their relationship, or what have you? Where does someone begin?
Jason Goldberg: Well, I mean, for me, it was really just a, well for me, I got hit over the head with a two by four metaphorically, although getting hit with an actual one maybe would’ve made the process even faster, but there has to be a willingness to change, and there has to be a belief that change is possible, right? So, if you want things to change but you have no willingness to do any of the work, or if you don’t believe it’s possible, you don’t believe you deserve a different experience of life or that’s just not available to you or whatever it is, if either of those things are present or missing, respectably, then it’s going to be very hard to change anything.
Jason Goldberg: But if you can be in the space of, well at least is how one of the reasons, or one of the ways it worked for me was, I was looking at other people in my life who had been through objectively worse things than I had been through, more traumatic things, more daunting challenges than I had been through. Not to minimize my own, but just to say, objectively, that seems like a bigger deal.
Jason Goldberg: And they didn’t seem to struggle with the day-to-day experience of life like I did. And so the question for me became, well, what do they know that I don’t know, because if somebody’s done it, then why can’t somebody else do it? Why couldn’t I do it? And so luckily my tech brain of being in technology for, you know, 15 years said, well, let’s try and reverse engineer this. And so, it’s just, that’s where I started asking people and asked like, what are you reading and what have you done? And what kind of things have you accomplished or challenged yourself with to be able to move through the stuff that you’ve dealt with? And so, for me, it was just like understanding that there must be a way to get there, even if I don’t know what it is right now and going on that path to find out what it is.
Wendy Myers: And so, you’ve interviewed a lot of like, amazing people. Talk to me about some of the people that you’ve interviewed that you’ve learned from, like you have your own podcast as well, tell me about that.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah. So, the podcast is really fun because it’s really, It’s more of a late night talk show than it is a podcast. So, the first season is done now, but it’s really, really fun. It’s called the Jason Goldberg is Ruining Podcasting Podcast. And it’s just about doing things differently. That’s why we did more of a late-night talk show kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, I have great guests on there, people that are big in the music industry and television producers and celebrity nutritionists and all these different people. And it’s just great to kind of hear their stories. We all have these stories of resilience, and we all have these stories of just having massive challenges to overcome.
Jason Goldberg: And what I think is beautiful about the people that I brought on, is that none of them, luckily enough, this was not planned, but I guess I just got lucky with the people that I chose, none of them had this air of like, you know, the sage on the stage. Nobody wants the sage on the stage anymore. It’s just not relatable. Right? It creates distance. It doesn’t create intimacy.
Jason Goldberg: And what I loved about these people’s stories is that it’s so relatable and it shows us that no matter if you are, you know, Will Smith’s nutritionist, who is one of the people that I had on the show, or you are an accountant who’s working a 40 hour a week job, we’re all experiencing the same stuff. It’s different flavors, but it’s all the exact same thing. And so, one of the things I really just loved about that first season was just the relatability of the people that were on there, and that’s the power of story also, right? Its stories allow us to have our experience validated in a way that it may have never been validated before, and once my experience is validated, I don’t feel so alone, and I feel that it’s possible that I can move through it.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, and so, what are some of the most inspirational stories that you’ve had on your show?
Jason Goldberg: I mean, so Mona, who’s Will Smith’s nutritionist, and she’s one of my dearest friends, I mean, she had massive heart issues. She had to have several heart surgeries, they thought she wasn’t going to live at a certain point in her younger years, and she just, she was a party girl ,and she was rising up the ranks in the company she was working with. She was crushing it by all accounts and all intents and purposes, but she was really struggling with her health.
Jason Goldberg: And so, just to watch how she’s fully reinvented herself, and she’s not out of the water, like she has to have her heart checked on a regular basis, because this is like a congenital kind of thing that she had going on there.
Jason Goldberg: And she’s just so dedicated to showing people that you don’t have to be sucked into Western medicine, you don’t have to be taking all the pills, you don’t have to be doing all these things. There are a lot of natural things you can do that have science behind them, this is not like rubbing a rose quartz on your heart to fix it, nothing wrong with that for anyone who does that,I live in LA people do that all the time, but like real science based stuff that really makes a big difference.
Jason Goldberg: And so, I just, I love her story, she has an incredible story. Kent Weed, Kent Weed is another dear friend of mine who is the creator of American Ninja Warrior, the TV show, and he’s the executive producer of all the Gordon Ramsey television shows, and another guy who just struggled really badly with addiction when he was younger.
Jason Goldberg: And just to see the changes he’s made in his own life and the place where he had to really, you know, put a line in the sand to say, “This is not going to be the way that my life plays out, there’s no way I can be the husband and the father that I want to be if I’m constantly drunk, even if I’m making tons of money in my work.” Right?
Jason Goldberg: So, he wasn’t willing to sacrifice his family and those other parts of his life for his career. So, anything where people have, any stories where people have courage to do things that the rest of us think, oh, I can never do that, but we all can do that, it definitely takes courage, it’s not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s possible for all of us.
Wendy Myers: And what is a kind of common thread of transformation that you’ve heard, you know, throughout the shows and the interviews you’ve done and people you’ve talked to, what are a couple of common themes?
Jason Goldberg: I mean, I don’t know, these weren’t coaching sessions, so, I didn’t dive as deep as I would in with coaching clients, but one of the things I see just in general for myself and for my clients is just the way that we relate to our world creates our world. Right?
Jason Goldberg: So, a lot of people say like your thoughts create your reality, and I disagree with that in the way that it’s typically said, I think it’s typically said of like, oh, if you have a certain thought in your head, then you can manifest that in your life and things like that. And that’s fine if people, If that’s effective for people, that’s great.
Jason Goldberg: Where I think it actually does make sense, it’s just not spoken about as much, is that there is awareness that you have as a human, as being a human being, the only thing that’s been constant in your entire life is your awareness. Your body has changed, your thoughts have changed, your location has changed, everything about you has changed except for the fact that you are aware.
Jason Goldberg: And so, unless you are fully aware, nothing else can exist. Your reality can’t exist. So to me, awareness creates a reality only in so much as that reality can’t exist unless you’re aware of reality. So, in a simpler way, what I mean by that is, every one of us can look at ourselves as the ocean, right? We are this vast boundless thing. You can’t see the edge of it unless you’re a flat earther and then maybe you think you can see the edge of it, but overall, you can’t see the edge of it, It’s this vast thing.
Jason Goldberg: Inside of the ocean are waves, now, nobody would ever say that the waves are the ocean. The waves are contained within the ocean, if the ocean didn’t exist, the waves couldn’t exist, but nobody would ever say that they are the same thing, they’re two different things entirely.
Jason Goldberg: And the reason that’s so important to look at is because the waves represent our thinking, the waves represent our stress, and our anxiety and all these things that we want to change, we want to improve, we want to create transformation around. But the waves of an ocean can never damage the ocean, right? There’s never been an ocean that has been hurt by the most violent, crazy, 100-foot wave, it goes like, super high in the sky, and then it comes crashing down in the ocean, and the ocean’s fine, the ocean is totally fine because it is independent of the waves.
Jason Goldberg: And so, the reason this is so important is that what happens is when we feel a lot of stress and anxiety, it’s because we are confusing who we are with these thoughts that are popping up in our head or with these experiences that are happening out there. So, I want to always remember that if I can watch the waves without any judgment, without any condemnation, when I can remember that the wave, no matter how big and no matter how scary it is, is going to crash back into the ocean from which it came and it will disappear.
Jason Goldberg: Like if I track and I watch a wave and it goes really, really high and then crashes into the water and I go, “Guys, I’ll be back. I’m going to go get that wave in a bucket.” And I swim out to it, and I have a bucket and I’m like, “Dammit, where’s the wave? This is just water,like, where did it go?”
Jason Goldberg: And that again is really how it works with what’s going on between our ears. And so, the more we can really recognize that we are not the waves, we’re the ocean, which is the space the waves are contained. Then we start getting the separation where we don’t confuse who we are with the things that are in our head, the thoughts that are in our head.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, so many people deal with, like, self-hatred, and self-doubt, and powerlessness, and other really negative feelings that came from childhood, from childhood trauma and other forms of trauma, things that happened to them along the way. How do you suggest that people deal with that?
Jason Goldberg: Well, it depends, right? If you’ve had really massive things, capital T trauma that’s happened, then get professional help, right? Get whatever kind of support you can get. That’s why I think therapy is amazing, right? And I’ve had therapy for years and I think it’s great.
Jason Goldberg: And once the perceived danger of this past trauma is no longer running your life, then there’s something else that can be done just internally for ourselves, and what that is, it goes back to that same kind of metaphor about being able to see the difference between who we are and what we think, is that when I say I’m depressed, I hate myself, I’m overwhelmed, I’m frustrated, I’m sad. Like all these things. Who is it that’s sad? Who is it that’s overwhelmed? And I go, “well, me.” I go, “Well, when you say me, when I say I, what am I associating with that?”
Jason Goldberg: Well, I’m associating my thoughts, my body, all these things, but we’ve just established those things always change. So, I can’t possibly be my thoughts. I can’t possibly be my body, my sensations, my perceptions, my judgments, my history, my memories. I can’t possibly be those things, because they’re all changing. So, if I am not the one who is actually sad, then who is?
Jason Goldberg: Well, it’s this finite self that I’ve projected out here, and that projected finite self is at risk, that thing has all kinds of risks. I, over here as awareness, have no risk, I am fine, my psychological security and safety is not at risk, nothing is at risk because I’m just awareness, I’m just here witnessing all the things that are going on. And so, a big part of my work is in identity shifting to deal with that exact thing.
Jason Goldberg: So, here’s the way I typically talk about it that may make it a little easier to understand. So imagine that you are the director of Batman, the movie Batman. And I’m a purist, I don’t get this whole Robert Pattinson thing, and Ben Affleck is Batman. I can’t do those. I’m a Michael Keaton, I’m like a purist, right? I’m sorry, you can’t go from Twilight to Batman, but whatever, It’s fine. Good for him.
Jason Goldberg: So, imagine you are directing Batman with Michael Keaton, the real Batman, and you’re on set and you film the scene, and the scene goes great, and you yell cut. And then you’re talking to your team, your crew and getting ready for the next shot, the next scene. And you look over onto the set and you see Batman pacing back and forth on the set. Okay. Well, you’re the director, you’re worried about your star, you walk over, you say, ” Hey man, what’s going on?” And he goes, “I don’t know, Wendy, like what if I’m not strong enough to beat the Joker?”
Jason Goldberg: “What if my technology’s not good enough? What if the people of Gotham die on my watch? Like, how am I supposed to deal with that?” And you’re looking at him like, what are you talking about? Like, it’s a movie. But you want to be compassionate, you want to help your star.
Jason Goldberg: And so, you have two options at this point, given what was just reflected to you by your star. Number one, you can say, “Okay, Batman, let’s go figure out how to beat the Joker, let’s go make sure your tech is strong enough, let’s make sure the people of Gotham are safe.” Or you can remind him that he is Michael Keaton. And once he really realizes that before he stepped on set, before he was in makeup, before he put on the outfit, the suit, before he drove to the lot, there was a different version of him that existed that has nothing to do with Batman.
Jason Goldberg: Now it doesn’t mean that we ignore the issues that Batman has, but when I realize, “Oh, I’m not Batman, I’m currently playing the role of Batman. There is an identity called Batman that I have now assumed as my own, but it’s not who I am.”
Jason Goldberg: When I’m in that place where I don’t have an attachment to that role or that identity, then I can look over at Batman and say, “Okay, let’s try to figure out your issues.” And I’m in a much more calm and peaceful place.
Jason Goldberg: So, it’s the same thing if you have a kid where the head of the doll pops off and the kid’s freaking out and just like screaming and crying. You’re able to see from a distance like, “Oh, that’s not that big of a deal, you just pop the head back on the doll and everything’s fine again.” But they don’t know that because they’re too in it, they’re confused, what’s going on here. Right?
Jason Goldberg: So, this is the opportunity for us, is to really recognize, and I do this, I call it out. If I’m having a really stressful experience, I will literally say, “Today I am playing the role of Jason, the stressed-out entrepreneur who thinks this project is not moving fast enough.” First and foremost, I want to really call out, who is the one that has the problem? It’s not me, but there is a role or an identity I’m playing that has these issues right now, and I say, “Cool, In this moment, just right here, right now, just in this moment, how does life feel? How does life occur to me without the attachment to, and the significance that I’m putting on that identity? If I’m sitting here in this moment and that identity is just completely not a part of who I am at all, it’s out there, how does life feel?”
Jason Goldberg: And when I sit there with that for just a minute, I feel more peaceful. Almost always, It’s an immediate thing, it doesn’t make, I feel like blissful and joyful, and I want to go like, you know, travel the world and have a bunch of fun. But my life feels at least a little more peaceful, and I ask myself which version of me is actually best suited to help, Jason the frustrated, overwhelmed entrepreneur with whatever problems he has? Is it the one that’s confused myself and said that I am that identity and that I’m working from the same projection of reality that that identity is working from? Or is it the peaceful version of me that can see the separation? Right? So, this is not like woo woo spirituality stuff. This is about like; how can I be more effective in my experience of life? And to me that’s just more effective
Wendy Myers: Because everything is about mindset, about perception, and you can so quickly change your mindset, I mean, it’s a practice like anything else. Do you have any other tips on kind of changing your mindset to be more positive and to just be more joyous, wake up with more joy and excitement about your life?
Jason Goldberg: Yeah, it’s more of an unlearning than it is a learning, it’s less about what we need to do and more about what we need to lay down. There’s a question I ask my clients all the time, what needs to be picked up or laid down in order for you to have a more joyful experience of life?
Jason Goldberg: And almost always it’s a variation of the same answer. If I laid down the need to control everything about my life, I would be much more peaceful,I’d be much more joyful. So, noticing that the role of trust is huge, and I’m not somebody at all whoever was into trust or surrender, that always felt passive for me, it felt like it’s an excuse, I’m sure, you know, there’s a bunch of people who were experiencing homelessness that just trusted and surrendered and look what happened to them.
Jason Goldberg: And I always struggled with this idea. And then it really occurred to me, there’s a lot of different pieces in this, but one of the big things that occurred to me there was that I was approaching trust as in, I trust that the universe will give me exactly what I want and the universe will conform to my preferences, which is one of the most arrogant ways I could ever approach life. That I know what’s best, that it should happen the way that I think it should happen. There’s just no humility in that.
Jason Goldberg: And so, bringing more humility into life. How can I possibly know what’s best for me? How can I possibly know how long this should take? This is not being passive and giving up on life. I’m still fully engaged with life, but I have to understand there’s a difference between my input and my intentions, and what’s actually going to happen, and I don’t have control over what’s going to happen.
Jason Goldberg: And so, if I’m on the whitewater rafting, you know, of life, I can put my paddle in the water and kind of help to steer a little bit. But if I fight too much against the rapids, I’m getting thrown off the boat. Right? I have to just go with the flow. I literally go with the flow on that. So that’s one of the big things, just noticing, when am I trying to take responsibility for things that are not my responsibility? And how can I feel a little more trust? Not trust that it’ll happen to my preference, but just trust that it will work out the way it’s meant to work out, and then I’m going to be okay.
Wendy Myers: Yeah. I like the whitewater rafting analogy and that like, resistance that people can have to what’s happening in their life or their situation in their life, and when you are resisting things, like what you resist persists. And it can make you really, really unhappy when you’re resisting so much and not surrendering to the process or enjoying the process, enjoying the ride.
Jason Goldberg: 100%. The resistance is everything, and, you know, if you look at it, one of the ways that one of my teachers would talk about it is, if you look at the actual room that you’re in, right? If you’re in a room of some sort. Of course, you’re outdoors because you’re in a beautiful location where you should be outdoors constantly.
Jason Goldberg: But if you are inside of an actual room with four walls, the room itself has zero resistance to any person or thing that is inside of it. It doesn’t think about the couch you brought in,it doesn’t think about the five friends that are hanging out and having dinner with you, it doesn’t care about any of that, there’s no resistance. It’s simply the space for all this stuff to exist if it wants to. So, notice how that’s different than the way sometimes we, including myself, that we will approach not having resistance.
Jason Goldberg: A lot of times we think we’re being clever and we’re not, it’s back to arrogance again. Well, if I say that,” I don’t resist it, then that’ll make it go away.” But that’s not actually removing resistance. Removing resistance says, “I’m okay with this thought or feeling or emotion being here forever, if it never leaves, I’m totally okay with that.”
Jason Goldberg: And then people say “No, but I’m not totally okay with that!” Well, then you’re going to continue to suffer. And I speak from experience, and it still happens to me, I haven’t mastered any of this, meaning that I do it 100% of the time, this is a constant practice for me as well. But I noticed that when I resist, oh, sorry, when I try to remove resistance as a strategy, it never works. When I truly can be like that room who doesn’t care what comes in and out, or who comes in and out and I’m okay with it being exactly what it is, miraculously it stops being so difficult.
Jason Goldberg: And there’s as a part of that as well with the resistance, what I realized that I was doing a lot was, you know, this whole idea of, you got to feel it to heal it, right? And people say that all the time. And I agree, like, I agree, you don’t want to bypass, you don’t want to distract yourself. You got to feel it to heal it.
Jason Goldberg: But what I realized that I was doing, because I had been so just overrun with this message of not being in resistance, and accepting all the darkness, and no matter how heavy it is, you know, welcome it in and fall in love with it as much as you can and all these different things, is that I realized even that became a breeding ground for more suffering, because now it’s like, “Well, am I feeling it enough? Did I allow it in enough? Do I need to suffer more before I can move forward?”
Jason Goldberg: And I would notice that when I was doing that, when I was trying to just really not be in resistance, I would have little glimpses of, like peace or joy, or happiness show up and I’d fight them away. Because like, no, no, I’m not ready for you, I’m still feeling and healing the thing that I need to feel and heal.
Jason Goldberg: And so, what I started doing that made a huge difference for me was, part of what I’ll do in my practice of not resisting is I’ll look at whatever the thing is, you know, the thought, the emotion, the situation. And I’ll say, you know, “I allow stress, I consent to this anxiety. I welcome this lack of clarity.”
Jason Goldberg: Like really being in this place of, you know, allowing, consenting, and welcoming these things to come in. And the thing that I added to that, once I realized that I was pushing away the good stuff, I wasn’t in resistance to the heavy stuff anymore, now I’m in resistance to the not so heavy stuff, is I started saying to myself in that same practice, “I also allow joy, I also consent to peace, I also welcome clarity.” You can hold paradox where you can say, “I’m not going to be in resistance to the heavy stuff, and I’m also not going to be in resistance to the light stuff.”
Jason Goldberg: And just being that open vessel, where I’m not trying to control and I’m really just allowing all of those things to coexist without them needing to leave any faster than they leave, or come any faster than they come, that to me just makes me feel more peaceful, and when I’m more peaceful, I do better shit in the world.
Wendy Myers: Yeah. I’m really working on that too, on resistance, and control, and things like that. And it’s amazing when you have like awareness around that, and you realize how, maybe you’re in a relationship and you have like, fear they’re going to leave you, or you have like jealousy, or you worry it’s going to end, or you want to be with them forever, or all these like different things, these silly things that you worry about, they can end up manifesting themselves because you’re creating behaviors around manifesting them, or you just create a lot of like internal resistance and stress over these things you’re trying to control. They’re just not in your control. So, it’s kind of like this whole mind game people play with themselves.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah, no, it really is, and here’s the shocking truth that is actually to me more liberating than it is depressing, is that everything is going to abandon you. Everything, your mind, your body, your family, your friends, your lovers. Everything is going to abandon you, but you know what? It hasn’t yet, so let’s really, really enjoy it.
Wendy Myers: Yeah.
Jason Goldberg: Everything.
Wendy Myers: And you’ll find a new lover.
Jason Goldberg: Yes, you will girl! You’ll find a new lover, depending on who you are and what your beliefs are, you may find multiple lovers. God bless you if you do. Do you want to be in a throuple? Make it happen. But I think that that’s really important, because it’s, you know, I always say everything from ice cream cones to broken bones is temporary.
Wendy Myers: Yeah.
Jason Goldberg: The thing you love the most is temporary, the thing you hate the most is temporary. So, if it’s all temporary, it’s okay, it’s all going to be on a cycle. The joy is never going to stay for too long, but neither is the pain. Like that’s just the way it is. And so, the more we notice that and the more we kind of just flow with looking at nature, you know, like nature lives, and grows, and dies, and then is reborn.
Jason Goldberg: And it’s just, and that’s how it works in our lives as well. We don’t physically die, and we get reborn, well I mean, depending on your beliefs, but on a daily basis we’re not dying and being reborn physically. But there are parts of us that will die, and that’s beautiful, because that makes space for the new birth to come up. Right?
Jason Goldberg: And so, a lot of this comes down to, and this gets into a kind of a much more, an even deeper spiritual conversation. But one of the things I’ve been practicing a lot over the last year is having more devotion and reverence for life. And it’s very important when I say life, because what I have done my entire life and I still do at times, is I focus on my life, right? My life, my preferences, my needs.
Jason Goldberg: And it’s not saying not to have preferences and needs, everybody has preferences and needs and desires and everything else. But when I look at life through the lens of my life, then there are threats, right? There are threats to my ideas about life, there are threats to my concepts about life, there are threats to my preferences about life, and so, then I’m constantly in this place where I’m looking for some kind of security from these threats.
Jason Goldberg: But if I drop the word my, and I just look at life, there’s no threat to life, right? If I’m fully just meeting life, there’s no threat to life. Life is infinite and beautiful, and there’s no set of preferences laid on top of that that can distance me from life. So, the more I’m practicing, having real reverence and devotion for life, and treating life like it’s a person, like I like to personify life and pretend it’s my best friend.
Jason Goldberg: And if you wake up in the morning, every morning, and you pretend that life is your best friend, and it happens to be your best friend’s birthday, then just like in real life with your real best friend, you want to show it how much you love it on their birthday, you want to show how much you appreciate it.
Jason Goldberg: And inevitably, sometimes your best friend on their birthday, are going to want to do stuff that you don’t want to do, and they’re like, “Well, I want to go on a pub crawl.” And you’re like, “Oh God, seriously, what are we 19? I don’t want to do that.”
Jason Goldberg: But you’re like, “You know what? It’s your birthday, life. So, if that’s what you want, that’s cool.” And sometimes life will want to do exactly what you want to do on their birthday, and then you’re like, “Score! We’re going to go do a movie marathon and like, sneak into seven different movies all day, this sounds amazing.”
Jason Goldberg: So, if I treat life like it is my best friend, then when it wants to do something I don’t want to do, I’m like, “Cool, I love you, so I’m going to do it.”
Jason Goldberg: And when it wants to do something I do want to do, I do, “Cool, that’s amazing, let’s do the thing that we both want to do.”
Jason Goldberg: And it just takes me out of this like victim mode where I’m always kind of upset that life’s not going directly according to my preferences.
Wendy Myers: Yeah. I mean, I think that’s a big problem, people, they love to wallow in victim mode, I think that’s like a big hang-up for so many people, Like, why me? And how come other people are doing so well? And I haven’t gotten my break yet. Can you talk about that victim mentality a little bit more? Because I think that’s where a lot of people get stuck.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah. I mean, so that’s what my whole book Prison Break is about. It’s about getting out of what I call the prisoner mentality, which is basically like the victim mentality, and moving into a place where you’re a self-leader instead, and, you know, prisoner mentality, the prisoner approach, the prisoner perspective, because it’s not a personality, it’s not a gene, it’s not a part of your DNA where you’re like a prisoner or a self-leader, you’re not a victim or an owner. Like it’s not like a vestigial tail or something that you have because of your DNA, it’s a moment-by-moment choice.
Jason Goldberg: And if you are raised in a household like I was, and I love my mom to death and she’s always been a hustler and done whatever she could to support our family as a single mother, it was always just the two of us, but she was raised in an environment where there was a lot of victim mentality.
Jason Goldberg: And so, in the same way, if you are raised in a household that only speaks Spanish, you’re not stupid for not being able to speak French, you just were never exposed to it, right? It’s just not natural for you. But, just like somebody who spoke Spanish their entire life and doesn’t know French, you know that you can go learn French, and it’s going to be awkward and foreign, and you’re going to mean to say you love the pasta, but you end up saying your mother is a cat. And it’s really like weird, and people are offended, and you’re like, “Wait, what did I do? I should just go back to speaking Spanish, because at least I was fluent in that.”
Jason Goldberg: But the more we stick with that new language, the more we stick with that new perspective, what we notice over time is that in any given situation we say, “Huh, this person just talked to me and I’m realizing in my head without thinking much that I could respond to them in Spanish, or I could respond to them in French.” All of a sudden, I have equal access to both languages.
Jason Goldberg: And, and that’s where this journey of self-leadership comes in, is by practicing very, very small pieces of noticing when you’re in the victim mindset. Noticing what you may be trying to get, what need you may be trying to get by being in the victim mindset. For me, I lived in the victim mindset, I lived in the prisoner mindset because it got me love, it got me attention, right? Mom would come over and say, “Oh honey, what’s going on? What’s wrong? What can I do to help? Do you want this? Do you want that?” It was a great way for me to get love, because I didn’t know a healthier way to do it. But when I’m almost 30 years old and I’m still doing that as the way to get love, it feels like something’s off.
Jason Goldberg: Maybe there’s something I should be looking at here. And so just that first thing of just noticing, ah, I’m doing that thing again where I think that the only way, I can get love in this moment is to be a prisoner, is to be a victim. That alone is such a huge first step, even if you still decide in that moment, yes, I’m realizing I’m being a prisoner right now, and I’m just going to kind of go with that. Fine! That’s still an improvement because at least now you know that you’re choosing to come from this perspective instead of it being something that’s being bestowed upon you by some all-knowing terrible vindictive God, right?
Jason Goldberg: So that’s the first part, is just that awareness and noticing moment by moment that you have a choice on how you react to this, how you respond to this. A big part of that is the identity stuff we talked about earlier, but it just gives you more choice.
Wendy Myers: Yeah. What do you think about the law of attraction and like using that as a way to try to get what you want in your life? I mean, I think there’s some flaws in it because if you’re operating in a certain frequency, like if you have emotional trauma and things like that, that can kind of hold you back a little bit with attracting the things in your life that you have the potential to attract. I think a lot of times trauma can kind of hold people back if they don’t work on releasing that. What are your, just that’s my perspective on it, what’s your take on it?
Jason Goldberg: Yeah, no, I agree, so I haven’t done a lot of study in the law of attraction, but what I’ve seen is that from people I’ve talked to who are really into the law of attraction, they say that most people who talk about it oversimplify what it actually means, right? And so I don’t know that that’s actually true, because I haven’t delved into it, but I get it when they say that.
Jason Goldberg: What I will say though, is back to what I was talking about with kind of the belief that it’s possible for you, is that if you don’t have a belief that you deserve a certain kind of life or that it’s possible for you to deserve a certain thing, then I think of course the only opportunities you’re going to see are the ones that align with the projection of what you believe about yourself, right?
Jason Goldberg: So, in the same way, if you ever watched, do you remember the original Willy Wonka movie? Not the one with Johnny Depp, but the original one? So, one of my favorite things in that movie is at the very end, spoiler alert for anybody who hasn’t seen the movie in the 50 years since it came out, but at the end of the movie, Willie Wonka gives the entire factory to Charlie, right? So it’s Charlie and grandpa.
Jason Goldberg: And they’re in the Wonkavator, the elevator with Willie Wonka, three of them in there, and the Wonkavator, it’s this glass elevator. And it goes up through the ceiling, smashes through the ceiling of the chocolate factory, and it’s like hovering over the city, and while they’re doing that, they’re hovering over the town there, Grandpa Joe and Charlie look down and they point and they go, “Oh, look, there’s our house! And there’s my school! Oh my God, it’s so beautiful!”
Jason Goldberg: But if you go back to the beginning of the movie, we saw the inside of the house, they lived in squalor, there was four elderly people sharing a bed together, like they lived in poverty. So, how is it that in one scene it’s terrible and it’s poverty-ridden, and in another scene, it’s beautiful and it’s gorgeous?
Jason Goldberg: Well, it’s because the consciousness difference, the perspective is different. So, if I’m lying face down on the cement with my nose touching the sidewalk and you were to ask me, “Jason, what do you see?” I would say, “Cement, I mean, I think there’s an ant I can see out of the corner of my, that’s all I see.”
Jason Goldberg: You take me and put me on top of a 30-story building and say, “what do you see now?” And I’m like, “Oh my God, I see tons of stuff. I see houses and buildings and clouds and planes, and I see all these things.” So, what I will say is that I believe in the law of attraction in so much as the level of consciousness you’re currently at dictates the possibilities that you see.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, and I think that’s why a lot of people feel like the law, like they’re trying to employ the law of attraction like, why am I not getting what I want?You know, I’m trying to think myself positive. Why is this not working for me? Maybe that’s one of the reasons why.
Wendy Myers: I mean, for me, I believe you have to shed emotional trauma and that frequency of that, raise your frequency to attract higher things, higher frequency things or people or jobs or things you’re trying to attract into your life. So, let’s talk about some of your other projects that you’re working on. Is there anything else that you have going on?
Jason Goldberg: I have one thing that I can’t share yet, but I’ll be talking about it soon enough. It’s going to be a really very, very cool project. It’s actually not in the coaching space, it’s in the personal growth space, but not in the coaching space. And it’s going to be a product-based thing. So, I’m really excited about that.
Jason Goldberg: And it’s so cool to be in a place, this is the first time, I’ve been in coaching now for better part of 10 years, and this is the first time in quite a long time that I’m completely out of my element. No idea, whole new industry, no nothing at all, and it’s been really fun to navigate, not knowing what I don’t know. Right? Because I’ve been able to use my tools that I teach others on myself in a brand new.
Jason Goldberg: I mean, I had to use them every day on myself because I am prone, if left my own devices, I grew up with depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, I was 330 pounds in my thirties, you know, this was my life, you know, up to around 30 years of age, was pretty trying, pretty challenging. And so, I’ve always had to use these tools and I’m not somebody who’s just like always has been happy, and joyful and playful, and light. And now I’m just coming out of here saying, “You be the same way. It’s super easy.”
Jason Goldberg: I’m like, no, it’s not, it takes freaking work. But what I’ve noticed is that being able to use the tools that I teach and that I use on myself in the typical ways I typically do it, using them differently now because I’m approaching this brand-new thing.
Jason Goldberg: It’s been so awesome, and it’s so great to notice. For example, anytime I create something newer to me, anytime anybody creates something new, I believe there’s two phases they go through, and it’s not like one then the other, you go back and forth, but there’s two different phases you can be a part of or engage with.
Jason Goldberg: There’s the “Wow”, and there’s the “How”, right? So, the “Wow” is like when it’s passion, you’re excited, like, oh my God, this is going to be amazing, it’s the greatest thing in the world, and then your mind shifts over to the “How”, and the “How” is when the self-doubt starts creeping in, right? And all of a sudden like, well, I don’t know how to do that, and somebody else has already done-
Wendy Myers: “It’s going to take so long.”
Jason Goldberg: “It’s going to take so long, and I don’t know I don’t have enough contacts, and somebody else already did that, so why should I do it?”
Jason Goldberg: And all of this stuff where the ego tries to stop you, and I had the exact same thing with me on this project. The ego was trying to stop me constantly, trying to talk me out of what I was doing, and so what I had to do there, and it’s one of my favorite tools that I share, especially with coaches or anybody who they want to put themselves out there, but they’re afraid. They’re afraid of being judged, they’re afraid of being ridiculed, they’re afraid of somebody counteracting what they say, and telling them they’re wrong or whatever, what family will think, or whatever else, and anytime I think about that, I go back to this, there was a woman I was dating at one point, who was a major, she loved animals.
Jason Goldberg: She was big into animal protection, animal rights. And so, anytime the circus would come into town in Orlando, where I used to live, she would be out in front of the circus, like picketing and handing out flyers and saying, “They’re mistreating the elephants! We got to save the elephants!” And she’s doing all this stuff.
Jason Goldberg: And people are yelling and screaming her like, “Get a damn job! I’m just trying to take my kid to the circus!” And she was unfazed by it. Like she would come home, and I’d be like, “How was it?” She’d be like, “Oh, I had like 40 people scream at me, somebody threw a hotdog at me, and it was totally cool.” And I’m like, “How is that cool to you? Like, how are you not crying in a corner in the fetal position right now?”
Jason Goldberg: And what had occurred to me was that she had taken on the role of an activist, right? And real activists don’t have time to worry about what people think about the thing that they’re an activist about because they have to make a dent in the thing they’re being an activist about.
Jason Goldberg: And so, if I look at any project I’m working on, and for anybody listening to this, any project you’re working on, find a way to shift yourself from coach, or entrepreneur, or business owner or whatever to activist, right? Figure out what is it that you’re actually being an activist for by starting this business, creating this project, putting this thing out in the world?
Jason Goldberg: And the more you shift into that, what’s actually happening is you’re shifting out of ego and back into service. And when you’re really focused on serving, you don’t have the self-doubt, you don’t have the self-talk that tells you shouldn’t do it, or it’s taking too long or it’s going to take too long, or somebody else has already done it. That would be like somebody saying, “I was going to do a campaign to raise awareness for breast cancer, but look, that person’s already doing it, they don’t need another person bringing awareness for breast cancer.” What? No! We need as many people as possible doing that. So, we really look at it through the lens of activists, for me at least, it makes it much easier to get into consistent action.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, I think it’s easy to get into that feeling like you have imposter syndrome. Like when I first started my podcast and I first started doing health coaching and things like that, I just felt like, oh, well, who’s really going to want to listen to me? And there’s so many other people talking about health or weight loss or whatever it is. When I first started, it was more about nutrition I was talking about but, you know, in the end, people want to hear it from you. Like you’re going to find your tribe and people that like your energy and the people that want to hear what you’re saying and how you say it. So, like you will find your tribe and your audience, and for me, 10 years later, I never really, I mean, I envisioned it of course, that I would have success, but it’s become much bigger than I had anticipated. But I definitely didn’t feel that way in the beginning, I felt like a fraud.
Jason Goldberg: Absolutely, and, you know, it’s one of these things where the number one way to deal with imposter syndrome that I found is to not be an imposter. Then there’s nothing to worry about. So, it’s one thing if you start your podcast and say, “Hey, I’m Wendy, I have a hundred million podcast downloads, I have never had a health problem in my life, and all of you idiots are going to learn something by listening to my show.”
Jason Goldberg: You’re being an imposter, you’re absolutely lying, right? But if you just come on and share your experience of life, right? Like when I go on stage and I’m doing a keynote and I talk about being 330 pounds and having suicidal ideation and everything else. Somebody in the audience could stand up and say, “Well, I’m 500 pounds and I’ve never been happier.” And then part of me would go like, “Oh my God, then I’m wrong, they’re calling me out! I’m an idiot, everybody’s going to think I’m an idiot.”
Jason Goldberg: My response will be, “I’m so happy that at 500 pounds you’re happy. My experience of life was that at 330 pounds, I had suicidal ideation and I was highly depressed.” Nobody can argue with my experience of life. When I start coming out and saying capital T truth, this is how life works and if you don’t do it this way, then your life is screwed. Then to me, I’m being an imposter, I’m also being an asshole. But I’m being an imposter in that moment, right? Just share your experience of life, what your beliefs are, what’s worked for you and where you’re really at. And then there’s no imposter syndrome to worry about.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, yeah. And so, anything else in your Prison Break book that you want to talk about? Like maybe how to be a self-leader, how to lead yourself? Because I think that’s something I’m really interested in as well, is how to lead. How to lead other people.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah. So, I don’t truly actually really believe in other leadership, I only believe there’s self-leadership, because really leading other people,If you truly want to lead other people, not just manage people, not just influence people, but you actually want to quote lead people, my experience of this, both from being in leadership positions, incorporating, then of course, being an entrepreneur, and having my own team and things like that in my businesses, is that when I’m practicing self-leadership myself, it sets an example and a model for them, and they go, “That’s interesting.”
Jason Goldberg: When that thing happened, and most people that I’ve worked for before would flip out and lose their crap. He didn’t lose his crap, he was challenged by it, he didn’t like what was happening in the situation, but the way he responded to it just feels different.
Jason Goldberg: And people think to themselves and go, “That’s how I want to react to things. I don’t want to react by screaming and yelling and doing all these things.” And so, you set that example where people then want to follow the way you’re doing it, and they just become self-leaders. So, you lead them by leading yourself, right? That’s kind of what I’m getting at.
Jason Goldberg: And so, self-leadership as a whole, it’s such a vast topic, which I wrote the whole book on it, but really, it’s about understanding the way life actually works, and understanding that there are three levels that we can experience the world around us. The first level is kind of the prisoner level, where it’s the circumstance dictates how I feel. If I’m happy, it’s because good things are happening. If I’m sad, it’s because bad things are happening, whatever. It’s all based on external stuff.
Jason Goldberg: The second level, the kind of second layer to this, is to live life through the lens of content. And so viewing life through the lens of content says, this bad thing happened, I’m going to reframe that, I’m going to find a positive way to look at this, I’m going to find the silver lining, I’m going to find how it’s a gift, great, this is super, super helpful, and it’s a big part, I shouldn’t say a big part, it’s a part of what’s laid out in Prison Break.
Jason Goldberg: But there’s a third layer to this, a third level to this, where you can live from the lens of context, right? So instead of it being what you’re thinking, it’s just that you are thinking, okay? So instead of me trying to manipulate the content at layer two, I go above that, and I go, “Oh, well, the reason that I’m suffering is because I’m taking seriously what the content is saying, regardless of what the content is.”
Jason Goldberg: There’s this old Vedantic parable of somebody walking through the desert and they see a coiled-up snake, and they freak out and they go, “Oh my God, I’m going to get bit by the snake, and I’m going to rot here, my corpse is just going to rot, and nobody’s going to find me, and my family’s going to never know what happened to me.”
Jason Goldberg: And they’re just freaking out about all this stuff, and then they look a little closer and they see that it’s a coiled-up piece of rope, and when they see that it’s a coiled up piece of rope, there’s nothing they need to do. They don’t go back to their therapist and say, “I need to do some work around my relationship with rope.” Like that’s just not a part of the conversation. So, if that person tried to just sit there and reframe everything about the snake, it may have worked, possibly, but isn’t it a lot easier to recognize that it’s actually not a snake and it’s just a rope and then you’re done?
Jason Goldberg: So that’s the practice of being a self-leader, is definitely work at the level of content if that’s helpful for you, 100%, I still do that too. But the real emotional freedom for me at least, the real clarity for me, is when I can zoom above that and say, “Oh, I’m taking this thing seriously. I’m attaching to whatever these thoughts are saying.” And I’m having what I call a Britney Spears moment. A thought popped in my head, I took it seriously, and I go, oops, I did it again. And I remind myself, that’s all, you’re just doing the thing again! Where you took the thought seriously. And just like that, it starts to dissipate.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, and so many people make that mistake. They get depressed about being depressed.
Jason Goldberg: Right! inception.
Wendy Myers: Yeah, I just had that. I was just on this constant revolving door of being depressed in my twenties, and these ruminating thoughts, and just focusing on them, and getting depressed about being depressed. And it seems like this cycle of inertia that it’s really hard to kind of get out of when you’re in it.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah.
Wendy Myers: Any thoughts on how to step out of that depression?
Jason Goldberg: Yeah. You know, here’s the thing, I think, depression would, sorry, people suffering from depression, not depression, but people suffering from depression or anything else that you would put in a category, anxiety, sadness, overwhelm, whatever it is. I think so many people would suffer so far less if they knew for a fact that there was a finite amount of time that that feeling was going to be there. But when we’re in it, it feels like it’s never going to go away, right? This is it. I’m going to be depressed for life.
Jason Goldberg: Because I had this question that I asked myself, I had these things, actually didn’t make it into the book because it was a tool I came up with after the book had already come out and I just never went back to work it in. But I have these things called PBQs, prison break questions, and a prison break question essentially is a question that takes something that seems like a problem and doesn’t solve the problem, it just makes the problem no longer problematic. Kind of like that level three context level stuff.
Jason Goldberg: And there’s as many prison break questions as there are situations. You make them up, and the format for a prison break question is essentially, if I knew, what would I do? Right? If I knew, what would I do? So, when it comes to this one in particular, I remember there was this day, it was like 2014, 2015. I was feeling just immense layers of depression and sadness, which then was bringing up anxiety for me because I felt like the depression was never going to go away. And I had done all this work, and now the work’s not working, and I’m trying the tools and I’m still depressed, and now I am a fraud because I can’t even handle my own crap, and like, I’m just spiraling, out of control, spiraling, which is one of my tendencies to do.
Jason Goldberg: So, I completely spiral out of control. None of my tools were working, and then finally I thought, “Okay, I got one last effort. I’m going to try a PBQ.” So, I asked myself, “What would the PBQ look like here?” And the one that came up for me was, if I knew that this feeling of depression was going to last for exactly 10 minutes, how would I treat myself for the next 10 minutes? Look, if I knew that at 10 minutes and one second, it was just going to disappear on its own without me doing anything. And so, when I asked myself that question, I kind of sat with it, meditatively almost, and I said, “Well, I guess I’d be a lot easier on myself. I wouldn’t try to fight it away anymore, because it’s going to be gone in 10 minutes anyways. I can hold out for 10 minutes.”
Jason Goldberg: Yeah, I would just be way more gentle and compassionate with myself while these 10 minutes are going by. And it isn’t that in 10 minutes it actually went away, but immediately it started going down, right? And so, that’s the thing to keep in mind here, is that every storm runs out of rain eventually, and if we just remember that we existed before we were sad, we’ll exist after we’re sad, I existed before I put on the shirt, I’ll exist after I take the shirt off, like, when I don’t assign who I am to the feelings that I’m feeling as a permanent and pervasive thing, and I notice that it’s temporary, and it’s isolated and it will pass, that makes it so much easier to navigate it when it’s in the present moment.
Wendy Myers: Yeah. You know the tools that I use for depression is I’d order a triple pepperoni pizza and watch Law and Order reruns.
Jason Goldberg: Wait, okay, hold on, hold on. This is an important question.
Wendy Myers: That was my recipe.
Jason Goldberg: Which Law and Order? Because there’s 19 Law and Orders. Which one? Which one’s your go to?
Wendy Myers: Well, back then there was like three or four. This is like 10 plus years ago.
Jason Goldberg: That’s a good one. I would still do that.
Jason Goldberg: I think once in a while that’s still a great thing to do, and I still would do that.
Wendy Myers: Triple pepperoni. It made me feel good, for sure.
Jason Goldberg: I didn’t know that was even a thing.
Wendy Myers: No, it’s a thing, double pepperoni, just not enough, so triple pepperoni just did it for me.
Jason Goldberg: I guarantee there was a group of marketers in a room who were like “Guys. Double pepperoni, not enough. Triple.” And they’re all like, “Sally, you’re a genius!”
Wendy Myers: Triple pepperoni gets respect. They really like the triple pepperoni.
Jason Goldberg: It’s a lot of meat.
Wendy Myers: It’s actually not meat.
Jason Goldberg: Oh, it’s not?
Wendy Myers: It’s just a lot of flavoring.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah.
Wendy Myers: It’s rubber-
Jason Goldberg: Processed flavor discs?
Wendy Myers: Yeah. Flavored rubber. Well Jason, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah!
Wendy Myers: That was so much fun, so inspirational, as of course I knew it would be. That’s why I wanted to have you come on. So, thanks for joining us and tell us where we can find out more about you, about your work, your book, your coaching, et cetera.
Jason Goldberg: Yeah. Thank you. So, thanks for inviting me on, I’m so happy we got to do this after. I think it’s been like at least seven years since I’ve seen you. So thank you so much for the invite in. And yeah, best place to follow me is on Instagram. That’s typically where I hang out. So, I’m @thejasongoldberg. Jason Goldberg was taken, so I had to get the most pretentious name possible. So I am “the” or “the Jason Goldberg.” And you can get a free copy of my book at my website, thejasongoldberg.com, but all that stuff is also linked in my bio on Instagram.
Wendy Myers: Okay, awesome, awesome. Well, Jason, thanks for coming on, and everyone, thank you so much for joining on the Meyers Detox podcast where every week I try to bring you guests to come on to help you up level your life, because you deserve to feel good. So, thanks for tuning in, and I’ll see you on the podcast next week.
