Ayahuasca & Psilocybin for Personal Growth: Microdosing vs. Quantum Dosing
with Maya Shetreat
Dr. Wendy Myers
Welcome to the Myers Detox Podcast. I’m Dr. Wendy Myers. On this show, we talk about everything related to heavy metal and chemical detoxification, and health issues caused by all these environmental toxins in our air, food, and water. We explore topics on anti-aging and longevity, and one of my favorite topics, bioenergetics. Today we’re going to be talking with Dr. Maya Shetreat about psychedelics and how you can use psychedelics quantum and the vibrational plant essences without having to go to Peru and doing ayahuasca and some of the inherent issues that can be had with doing macro dosing. So, on this show today, we’re going to be exploring psychedelics and how they’re being researched for various conditions, including depression and anxiety, PTSD, addiction, and neurodegenerative diseases, just to name a few.
We’ll talk about what macro dosing is, which is that full psychedelic experience, often used in clinical studies. We’ll discuss micro-dosing, which is a sub-psychedelic dose that allows normal daily functioning but gives you a lot of the benefits of macro dosing. We’ll discuss quantum dosing, which is a really a totally new concept in the realm of psychedelics for me, which is using vibrational medicine in using plant essences. It’s a safe legal alternative to macro and micro-dosing, but with the same benefits. The focus of the show today is exploring the psychedelic quantum dosing benefits and using it as a tool for personal growth and development, healing, and releasing emotional trauma. Maya’s quantum drops are based on the indigenous practices of using plant vibration for healing. It’s used in ceremonies as well.
We’re going to talk about using the vibrational plant essences without ingesting them and how I can get the same benefits using Maya’s quantum drops. It’s really interesting. So, she’s got drops that have the frequencies of ayahuasca, the San Pedro cactus and psilocybin, which are magic mushrooms. So, it is really interesting. She talks about a lot of her patients’ experiences with their emotional release of integrating their past self and aspects of themselves they thought that they lost, intuitive experiences, and emotional release, just really interesting stories that Maya has on the show today.
Our guest, Maya Shetreat MD, is a neurologist, herbalist, urban farmer, ceremonialist, and author of The Dirt Cure, and her new book called The Master Plan Experience of the Science, Safety, and Sacred Ceremony of Psychedelics. She’s been featured in the New York Times, The Telegraph, NPR, Sky News, The Dr. Oz Show, and more. Dr. Maya created Quantum Drops, which you can find at quantumdrops.com. This is a vibrational master plant product that is safe, legal, and deeply transformative. She’s also the founder of the Terrene Institute, where she offers training for psychedelic-informed practitioners, as well as an upcoming quantum practitioner certification. You can learn more about that at drmaya.com. Maya, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Maya Shetreat
You’re welcome. It’s my pleasure to be here.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Maya Shetreat
Well, I’ll be as succinct as I can. I am trained as an adult and pediatric neurologist. I think that’s what most people see first and foremost when I’m talking about things, but I’m also trained as an herbalist and was talking about food and where it comes from and nutrition and herbs, obviously, in my body for a long time before I felt like it was at the forefront. It’s very exciting that that’s happening now where it’s just common parlance to be talking about gut health and Reishi mushroom and different things that made me like a complete weirdo for, I feel like several decades. I ended up working with ceremony and indigenous people, knowing and eventually mastering plants, which we can talk about this category of psychedelics and beyond. That happened very much by accident. It was not like I was like, let’s go to Ecuador or Peru and have this thing.
I had a family crisis with my son, which is the same son I wrote The Dirt Cure about, ended up being my muse for my own journey that I ended up having and writing in The Master Plant Experience, my second book that just came out last year. I started to really dive deep into what indigenous knowledge and master plants could offer us in this very pivotal moment in medicine, society and culture in history. My lens is wider than how we will solve a medical problem because I’ve come to learn that it’s much deeper. Medical problems or physical issues are very downstream issues of the other things that have happened in our lives and in our society and in our culture. So I think that’s where I’ll stop.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Yeah, and there’s so much research going on with psychedelics and addressing depression and other uses as well. So, what are some of the uses that’s going on in the research for psychedelics?
Maya Shetreat
I think that’s something that a lot of people don’t realize because they hear psychedelics and maybe they think drugs or they think it’s like a legal thing. It’s not that that hasn’t been part of the narrative, but even in the fifties and sixties, there was a lot of really successful research on things like OCD and depression back then with mushrooms and LSD. Then things went sideways because there was really no good container for that, and they were made illegal for a long period of time. Now, almost every major academic center in the world either has a dedicated department to studying psychedelics or at least some research going on looking at major depression, looking at anxiety, looking at traumatic brain injury, looking at PTSD, looking at addiction, tobacco, alcohol, but also other more profound forms of addiction, looking at postpartum depression and now looking at autoimmunity, looking at pain syndromes, looking at Alzheimer’s, and really so much more, but the literature is really impressive and promising.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Yeah, it seems like the foundation of that is the neuroplasticity where you can create different pathways and reroute from old, maybe outdated pathways aren’t really working for you, and really create this expansion and growth that perhaps people aren’t able to access on their own.
Maya Shetreat
Well, it’s a very particular kind of plasticity that’s been looked at. So, as a pediatric neurologist, I’ve learned a lot about these window periods of plasticity that happened in childhood, and we need those because we have to learn how to walk and talk and potty train and be in society and be in a family and da, da, da, all the many things. We have to learn that very quickly. So, are these critical periods of plasticity, or CPPs that have been looked at? They are fairly unique to early life. We used to think plasticity was only something that happened in children and everything after that was downhill. That was not that long ago because it was when I was in my training, but we now know, of course we can have plasticity from fasting and from certain herbs and from exercise and all kinds of things all throughout our life, but these critical periods of plasticity are different.
That’s why things like childhood trauma, which we can talk about a little bit more, imprint and embed so deeply. It’s like the stuff that you just can’t get past. Even though maybe you’re not thinking about it, even though you’re like, yeah, I’m an adult now, etc. It’s like what we’re discovering, and this is very big now, attachment styles and all these different things in relationships we’re really acting out. A lot of what’s embedded in us during those early years of our life, and that’s because of plasticity, but this very particular kind that psychedelics can reopen. And of course, that’s a huge benefit, very exciting, but also a danger because the trauma that happens in childhood in a critical period of plasticity can embed. We don’t want an experience that we intentionally create at a later point in life to be traumatic and embed in a new way. So, that’s why it’s really important to have support in these kinds of experiences, trained support before, during, and after.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Yeah, and that’s why a lot of people go to Peru and go to places like Mexico where I used to live in Playa del Carmen. There’s a lot of shamans and frog medicine and a lot of different psychedelic and toad medicine and psychedelic activities going on that people can have positive experiences but also negative ones if they’re not in that clinical setting with trained professionals.
Maya Shetreat
Yeah, being in a trained professional clinical setting also has its benefits, pluses and minuses, and being in a shamanic setting is spotty, potentially, in that regard as well. We don’t always know, but there’s more and more training programs and more and more credentialed people. I think that’s the key also, that every study that’s been done, all of these amazingly successful outcomes where just one or two doses of a psychedelic, let’s say magic mushrooms, the Psilocybin mushrooms cure lifelong depression. All of the studies have professional support before, during, and after. So it’s really important that it is embedded in all of this research. I just want to be really explicit about that.
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Dr. Wendy Myers
I’ve had friends of mine that have done microdosing and had tremendous results from it. I mean, just completely coming out of their shells, opening up, really becoming different people and claim it completely changed their lives and there are lots of benefits. So maybe for the listeners, explain a few things like what’s the difference between macro dosing, microdosing and then quantum dosing? It’s just so we can get kind of a glimpse into your book and what you talk about in that book.
Maya Shetreat
Sure. So, macro dosing is I think what most people would imagine relating to psychedelics. What most people associate with psychedelics is these big, what I call cannonball and fireworks experiences where you’re at a commission and you have these visions and big change can happen. Most of the studies are looking at these macro dosing experiences and there are a lot of reasons for that. One of them is because it’s contained. So, basically people can prepare in whatever professional way they have as part of a study. They come in, they get tested for five, six, seven hours, and have this experience where they’re guided, et cetera. And then on the other side, make sure they’re safe, send them home and they come back for some integration. It’s very like clean for let’s say an institutional review board that’s going to say, yes, we’re not sending people out into the community with various substances that we aren’t sure are going to be used in the right way, et cetera
So, there’s that aspect, but there also is an aspect of having your story and your narrative and your experience of life so interrupted and have this opportunity to access the mystical, which is a big part of what seems to be beneficial about these medicines. So, it’s not just probably neuroplasticity. It’s something more because there are lots and lots of papers talking about success that often seems to be linked to people having a mystical experience and there is a whole literature on the mystical experience. Scientific literature looking at people feeling connected to something larger than themselves, feeling at one with nature, feeling open, feeling connected, all of these kinds of ways that like part of what it turns out is underlying a lot of neurologic conditions and a lot of mental health conditions is that like our neurons and our cells literally become lonely. Our mitochondria literally become lonely.
We’ve heard in the U. S. about this epidemic of loneliness, but what that plasticity is doing is creating this connection. And then on a mystical level, on this more esoteric level, that’s also happening and it can be life-saving. So, macro dosing, the big trip, microdosing is what we would call a sub-psychedelic experience. That’s good for a lot of people because not everybody is a candidate for macro dosing. We can get more into that. Not everybody’s a candidate all of the time. Even if you would be, maybe now is not the time. But microdosing, the sub-psychedelic dose, you’re taking a non-microdosing psychedelic dose. So, you might feel affected. Your mood might be different. Your thought processes might be more open. You might feel more creative. You might feel more focused. There’s really interesting self- reported literature on this, but you’re not out of commission. You can go shopping. You can take care of your kids. You can go to work. You can drive your car. It’s not like you’re out of commission in that same way.
So, it’s less an out-of-control surrender, whatever happens, happens experience. It’s a little more like little tastes over time of this more openness. You still get a lot of that neuroplasticity, just not in the same way. There’s a lot of really cool literature that’s now developing. This is something that we’d send people out into the community with. So institutional review boards and medical centers are a little more reluctant to do that research. It’s not because it doesn’t work, although, of course, we’re in a society in medicine where more is more all the time. So, subtle things are not considered to be beneficial just in terms of the mindset of the medical community. But in fact, I’ve seen, as you have and have worked with people who’ve had profound changes in perimenopause and menopause, going through really difficult life experiences, people with trigeminal neuralgia or other conditions, chronic pain syndromes like cluster headaches, migraines, very profound benefit, depression, anxiety, and people feel more connected. They feel more in general. More like they want to take good care of themselves, more like they want to go out and be with other people, things like that. So that’s microdosing.
I actually think microdosing even though it’s not as dramatic, it’s probably going to be where most people are going to get the most benefit. That’s probably going to be the biggest way people are going to be engaging. And then there’s quantum dosing. Quantum dosing is interesting, I don’t want to say it’s a discovery because it’s certainly not my discovery. There is a precedent in indigenous medicine and communities for using vibrational medicine of these master plants as a medicine, a very profound medicine. So, anyone who’s been in an ayahuasca ceremony will have heard these Icaros. They’re songs that are sung by the maestro, the Ayahuasquero, who’s leading and guiding. He’s trained with that plant for a very long time, could be even many, many years and the plant gives over as it’s told this vibrational medicine. It’s not like the guy made up these songs and composed them and sings them. It’s actually given by the plant and every person has totally different Icaros.
What they say is this is a vibrational medicine as potent as drinking the brew of the ayahuasca. So, what that means is that sometimes, especially in the more only indigenous circles where it’s not like there are Westerners there, they actually will not even serve the brew to the person who needs the healing. The Ayahuasquero would maybe take a sip of the brew, sing his Icaros, this vibrational medicine, and the people will have a full healing experience just by being exposed to the Icaros. So, quantum dosing of these plants is related to basically, how do we use like Luc Montagnier’s work, this Nobel prize winner who imprinted DNA at low frequencies into water without actually putting the substance into water. It’s a way of working with plants and I grow these plants, but not for my own ingestion, just as my relationship with the plants to tend them, using the vibration of the plants through music, actually you can measure the oscillations of plants and there are these devices that make music from the plants and medicine songs, et cetera.
It’s this vibrational medicine in drops, which because it’s vibrational is legal, totally legal, totally safe. That means if someone’s sober, or pregnant, or a child, or medically fragile or psychiatrically, have some kind of contraindication, or if they’re just sensitive, or for people who want to prepare or integrate after a psychedelic experience, they have a way to work with something that can be very potent but doesn’t make you high. It isn’t going to cause any trouble for you from a legal standpoint or a medical standpoint and you can still have some of the benefits of the plants.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Yeah, I love that. As we talk a lot about bioenergetics on this podcast, and I’m all about energy medicine, frequency medicine, and a lot of different terms used for that quantum energy medicine because it’s really an amazing way to input new information into your energy field, which then elicits a physical change in the body. It’s just really incredibly interesting. So, talk to us about what some of the outcomes are, what can people expect? What have you heard from people taking the quantum drops and engaging with the psychedelic master plants that are in the quantum drops?
Maya Shetreat
When we developed this, I got this strong message from the plants and I was just literally tending them, not altered. But there is this quantum experience you have when you’re even tending these plants because they’re very powerful. I got this strong message like why do people think they need to ingest us in order to experience our medicine? And they were like, show them another way. I was thinking about homeopathy. I mean, this was many years ago. Homeopathy, flower essences, but I knew it was something else. I ended up, as I developed it, which took a long time and you have to find your way through that. I started beta testing them with consent with some of the people that I work with in retreats and patients and there were some really profound moments of people having these significant, I don’t want to call them identity shifts, but they were like these ways in which like one person basically said, she was like, I was always rebellious when I was younger.
She’d become a doctor, an MD and was like, I feel like all that part of myself is like, I had to put it aside. I was an artist. I was this, I was that, and his whole part of me is suppressed. And she’s like, ever since I took these quantum drops, I’ve started to integrate that back into my life. And then she said, oh, and by the way, my husband wants to thank you because our sex life has totally taken off and exploded, which like if I can help you, did I expect that? No, but this was years ago. If we can help our life force, libido is so connected to our feelings of aliveness and being an integrated person. That’s been something I’ve seen is a lot of really great stuff for libido. But I also
Dr. Wendy Myers
It seems like people have inhibition in that area as well. They can open up and bloom. It might help that a little bit.
Maya Shetreat
Well, and it just helps everything. We haven’t talked very much about cellular memory, but there are these ways that all of our experiences in our life are held in our body, literally in ourselves, like a library. So, our mitochondria even if they’re in more like a danger stance or a protection defense stance, which could have happened not just because we had massive capital T trauma, although it triggers it, but also even what we call lowercase T trauma, which is more like we were bullied or our parents preferred our sibling to us or we were just neglected. In certain ways, parts of us were neglected and that doesn’t mean we had terrible parents or a terrible family situation or terrible anything. It was our experience and our cells understand physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual language. All of those challenges embed in our body and translate back out as physical symptoms or sometimes mental health symptoms.
So, when we’re working in this vibrational way, a lot of paths we didn’t take, because of those stories that are embedded in ourselves, literally, those start to open up to us again and it allows this sense of connection and opening. Another story, for example, and this is an interesting one is, I was actually at a medical conference and there was a doctor there and we talked about quantum drops and the science, et cetera. He’s like, well, I don’t know about any of this, but I like you and I want to try these. I was like, okay, go ahead, try them, whatever, let me know. He comes and finds me the next day and he says, oh, I tried them last night and I tried them again this morning, he said, and I don’t know if they did anything, but I’m meeting great people. I feel good. I was like, okay. As he’s walking off he said, oh, by the way, last night I built an altar to my father who died and I kneeled down and I prayed to him. I was like, oh, have you ever done that before? He said, no, but I’m Chinese and that’s my culture. We pray to our dead ancestors. He said, I started taking the drops and I thought, I want to honor my father here and my own lineage. I took this picture of my father and I put it up and I got a towel from the hotel, got on the floor and I kneeled down.
I said, no, that’s amazing. I said, do you have an altar or something in your home? He said, no, like I don’t. My house doesn’t have anything Chinese in it at all. He said it is such an afterthought. It didn’t even occur to him that the two things could be connected even though it’s like they are connected. So, that kind of experience is the kind of messages that I will get from people. These very profound windows that open up or portals that they can see with new eyes, hear with new ears or perceive with a different heart. That’s what I would say.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Can the drops help to facilitate release of emotional trauma in the same way you can do that if you do micro or macro dosing, if people are led down that path to do that?
Maya Shetreat
Definitely. What I always tell people is with quantum drops, you have to put them somewhere beautiful because vibrational medicine likes to be in a really beautiful high vibrational spot. It doesn’t mean you can’t throw it in your purse and take it with you or your suitcase, but don’t leave it in the box it came in under your bathroom sink. You calm each day. I would say it in a ritual way, just taking a few moments. You don’t have to meditate. It’s nice if you have an intention, but people absolutely don’t have to sit and have an intention to get very fascinating and sometimes very profound outcomes. I’ve seen the gamut of people really experiencing big shifts, meeting the person who’s going to help them through X, Y, Z, These things where they’re like, I’ve been waiting all this time trying to get or trying and working and going to all these practitioners, et cetera, to work through this thing. And then boom, like suddenly I realized, I don’t need to do all those things. It’s within me.
These are very big openings. I’m not saying that I think that quantum dosing is a replacement for every other thing, but it sounds like you and I are on the same page. I think quantum medicine is the medicine of the future. We’re gonna realize that everything else we’re doing is because we’re conditioned to think we need that.
Dr. Wendy Myers
I’m 100 percent with you. Most of the things I do for my health are bioenergetic. Our energy medicine, I’ve got all this equipment around me and I talk about it on the podcast, that a lot of what I’m doing is sending different frequencies to my body through different types of equipment like my Spooky2 Rife and radionics. I’ve got a biophoton analyzer and just all these different things. That’s the first thing that I go to. I do physical stuff. I take Spirulina and I take various supplements and do detox modalities. I physically detox, but I’m all about using different devices and taking things that have frequencies. I imprint frequencies on my supplements as well and my line of detox supplements just to facilitate their functioning, to give them added properties that the physical ingredients wouldn’t have. So, definitely you have a very open audience here on this topic. Is there anything else that you wanted to maybe highlight or discuss about the drops that we haven’t covered yet? Can you tell us where we can get them?
Maya Shetreat
Yeah, of course. They’re easy to get, number one. You can go to quantumdrops.com, or you can go to drmaya.com. Both of those places will take you to find the drops and they’re sold as a set. The grandmother, which is made with, but not from the ayahuasca plant, the grandfather, which is made with, but not from the San Pedro cactus and the children, which are made with the salsa bee mushrooms. They are called the sacred children. They come as a set. Each of them really has different properties and I share that when you get your drops, you’ll have the things we’ve seen with grandmother. It’s a lot with the mother wound, also can be the connection to woman energy. It can be also related to really big cleansing, really powerful clearing things from your life, et cetera. These are just a few examples. It’s a much longer list. The grandfather is for the father’s wound and a lot of heart medicine. It has a lot of strength, but it is very different from the grandmother.
The children are a lot of inner child. I love the children for also facilitating a playful approach to things and curiosity, like breaking through to new solutions for problems or asking better questions. They’re a little playful like that. Most of us were so serious, we can be so serious and forget that play is where we actually get the answers or the visions of the things that we don’t even know how to yet imagine. We’re finding our way through things. So, they’re really fun and I actually recommend to people that they don’t even necessarily look and say, oh, I’m going to take the grandfather because X. That’s totally fine. I found that those drops guide people and if I put a bunch of them in a bag, which I’ve done, and have people pick them out, the one that I would have told them I think they need, and often the one they themselves think they need, is the one they pick.
I love that too because it’s a way people can engage with their own intuition and their own sense of connection, and that’s really what I’m about too. There isn’t a guru, and we don’t have to go to somebody else to tell us all of the answers. It’s wonderful to gather information in places like this. I’ve obviously educated myself as have you, but what I really want to help people do is discern what is actually right for them at the moment. I think that every person is capable of doing that.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Yeah, I agree. It’s so important to listen to your inner voice no matter who you’re dealing with, the videos you’re watching, you need to listen to your inner voice and what resonates with you and when you need to run the other way, run for the hills.
Maya Shetreat
Right, absolutely. Both can be true. It can be true with totally great people that other people say are wonderful, totally help them, might not be right. I have a lot of people who will say, oh, everyone’s telling me I should go do ayahuasca in Peru, that kind of thing. And I’m like, okay, but what do you feel? Well, I’m really scared. It’s like, maybe not. Now’s not the time. You don’t need to do it just because people say you should.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Yeah, for me, I’m not drawn to the ayahuasca in this. I did LSD in high school and I’ve had those experiences and they were really interesting and eye opening, but I was like, I want to get off the ride now. It was just too long a road for my taste, but I think something like the quantum drops really appeals to me because I don’t want to get high and I don’t want to take some medicine from some guy I don’t know that’s extremely strong with a bunch of people I don’t know. That doesn’t really appeal to me at all, but for some people they love it and they go maybe a little bit too nuts with it. I get a little bit too much neuroplasticity going on there. The change is in the wrong direction, but the quantum drop sounds like you get a lot of the benefits without some of the negative components that could possibly come with going all the way to Peru and going to the jungle.
Maya Shetreat
Or getting something as someone was doing, but from their doctor actually, getting something in the supermarket parking lot. I’ve heard all the stories, all the dark web things, all the sketchy stuff and again, I’m not saying someone can’t find something really beneficial in that but like the risk is high. What I love is when we can find high yield at low risk. That’s where I always wanted to begin, and from the minute I got my MD, that’s what always drew me and appealed to me, which is why I then became an herbalist also to integrate and have somewhere to start that wasn’t all the way at a seven out or eight out of 10. Can we start somewhere that might feel better to the body and the mind and the spirit.
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Dr. Wendy Myers
I love that. So, tell us again what your website is and where we can get the quantum drops.
Maya Shetreat
For quantum drops, you can come to drmaya.com, or just go to quantumdrops.com. You get them as a set and just have fun with them.
Dr. Wendy Myers
Okay, great. Sounds super interesting. I want to try them for sure. I’m all for energy medicine in all of its different forms and I have a device here. I can really take any plant, any essential oil and send that frequency to my body. I experiment with all kinds of different things, sending vitamins to my body and anti-aging nutrients to my body and all kinds of things. I’m all about that. So, I really encourage people to experiment with energy medicine because I believe that it’s the medicine of the future. That’s what I try to drive home on this podcast. It’s for people to open their minds and do something different than you’ve been doing in the past that may not be working for you or hasn’t worked at all, where you’re seeing yourself getting worse and worse and worse by taking the same type of action, only addressing physical issues with physical solutions.
I just encourage people to try something new. Dr. Maya, thanks so much for coming on the show and everyone, I’m Dr. Wendy Myers. Thanks so much for tuning into the Myers Detox Podcast, where we talk about more advanced subjects. We don’t do the basics here. We talk about more advanced topics in health because my goal with this podcast and spending all this time and energy I spent on the show is to really give you a lot of different tools, different pieces of the puzzle to help you along on your health journey and elevate your health journey because you deserve to feel good. Thanks for tuning in.
Disclaimer
The Myers Detox Podcast is created and hosted by Wendy Myers. This podcast is for information purposes only. Statements and views expressed on this podcast are not medical advice. This podcast, including Wendy Myers and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own, and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. If you think you have a medical problem, consult a licensed physician.
