Transcript #511 The Science of Water and Maximizing Hydration with MJ Pangman


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  1. Today we’re introduced to MJ Pangman, a science writer and water expert who will educate us about the many facets of water and how they aren’t all created equal.
  2. Hear about MJ Pangman and her journey and passion to become a water expert.
  3. Learn about hexagonal water and the work of Dr. Mu Shik Jhon, a Korean doctor who MJ Pangman helped write his book “The Water Puzzle and the Hexagonal  Key”, and who inspired Pangman’s work.
  4. Be inspired to commune with nature, one of the simplest and healthiest ways to structure water in your body.
  5. Learn about creating structure and bringing other elements into water to give it full spectrum and life force.
  6. Appreciate the importance of minerals in water and how they add complexity to the structure. 
  7. Hear about new exciting research about ormus, which is revealing promising health benefits.
  8. Learn how biofeedback research that Pangman did on Watt-Ahh showed a significant positive health response to it.
  9. Realize the need to be cautious and proceed slowly when adding minerals to your water.
  10. Discover other applications that Watt-Ahh can be used for to improve absorption and health benefits.
  11. Hear about MJ Pangpan’s book and website, where you can more information.


Dr. Wendy Myers: Hello everyone. I’m Dr. Wendy Myers. Welcome to the Myers Detox Podcast. We have a really interesting show for you, and I want you to tune in until the end because we talk about a fascinating type of water called Watt-Ahh, and we’re going to go into the science of water and the structure of water. We’re going to go into what is Ormus water. We’re going to go into how you get water to transfer its energy to your body so that you’re more energized, different techniques to structure your water and the benefits of doing all this stuff while you want to bother. And really, I want you guys to be thinking more about water, thinking more about how you hydrate your body and how you think about water because it’s not as simple as just drinking spring water, eight glasses a day. That is really not the best way to go.

  It’s one way to hydrate yourself. But what I find is that even with spring water itself, we need to think about structuring the water or adding minerals to it and doing things to it to help increase how it absorbs. And so we talk about all those concepts and more on the show. But even more importantly, there’s water out there. It’s called Watt-Ahh, W-A-T-T-A-H-H, Watt-Ahh, and you can learn more about that on, and you can buy it on Amazon as well. And so this water is really interesting and we talk about the patent on it and how it works exactly. So it has this DiTetra Gas. It’s basically the gaseous state of water that is infused into just regular inert water. And we talk about all the properties of this water and how it’s super hydrating. It feeds oxygen to your mitochondria.

  It feeds electrons to your body. It feeds hydrogen to your body. It feeds protons to your body, so it helps to ground your body. It’s super hydrating. You can drink one liter of these that’s equal to four or five liters of regular water. It helps with any supplements you take to absorb much better. This is supercharged water. So you can add supplements to it, you can add minerals to it, you can add anything to it. It dissolves really, really easily. We talk about how you can do a little experiment yourself to dissolve, say your CitriCleanse or whatever in regular water, and then dissolve it in the Watt-Ahh. You’ll see how this is very active structured water and how supplements dissolve in it much, much easier, and they absorb much better as well. And there’s actually a study that Watt-Ahh has done that shows that supplements absorb seven to 10 times more when you take them with Watt-Ahh versus regular water.

  Lots of research on Watt-Ahh. And so MJ here that is on the show today, she’s a water researcher. She’s been studying water for 30 years. She studied with a disciple of Dr. Emoto in Japan. So I want to utilize her expertise to explain some of these difficult concepts about water, why Watt-Ahh is also superior to other waters, why it’s different and why you want to be drinking it to enjoy all of its benefits. So I can’t stress this highly enough. I love Watt-Ahh and it’s one of my secrets. It’s one of my kind of secret weapons in my health just to help super hydrate me, give me structured water, oxygenate my brain and my tissues, and just give my body what it needs to be healthy and functioning because for me, I want to do everything anti-aging, everything I can do to help improve my health.

  And one of the foundations is hydration. A lot of times people get these simple things wrong. They think it’s some complex protocol they have to do, or maybe they’re just not taking the right supplement. They’ve got to buy these 10 other supplements and you really need to get hydration correct. This is the foundation of everything, and that’s why I do so many podcasts on water. So let’s get on with the show. Enough of the intro. So I know you guys listening to the show are concerned about detoxification, your body’s burden of toxins. So I created a quiz. You can take it at It only takes a couple of seconds, and you get a free video series about how to detox your body. And I answer a lot of your frequently asked questions about how to detox and test supplements and all these different things. So go take the quiz at

  So our guest day, MJ Pangman is an author, publisher, and small business owner who’s written a number of books for doctors, naturopaths, and inventors. And in the 1990s, she became fascinated with water as a vehicle for the transmission of energy and information. Since that time, our research has focused on the significance of the liquid crystalline state of water. Her book, Dancing with Water, written with Melanie Evans and now in its second edition, teaches the basics of bringing life and energy back to water. Also, it’s widely known for establishing both the scientific basis and the spiritual wisdom surrounding the world of water. MJ is committed to helping others gain an appreciation for water’s multifaceted role in life on this planet and helping others connect with water on a deeper and more conscious level. And you can learn more about MJ and her work at MJ, welcome to the show.

MJ Pangman: Thank you. Thank you, Wendy. I’m happy to be here with you.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your history, how long you’ve been involved in working with water.

MJ Pangman: The history goes back a little ways and one of those subjects that you never anticipate going down the road, you end up going down. But many years ago, I think it was in the early two thousands, that I was writing educational materials for groups that were involved in complementary medicine. And I met this fellow who had just come back from Japan. He had done some work with Dr. Emoto. Now we know most of your audience knows Dr. Emoto as the messages from water scientists. Anyway, he was interested in putting some educational materials together for a product that he’d come up with, which was a structured water product. And I’d never heard of that concept way back then. This was 20 years ago. And so I tried his product and I was really quite impressed, very impressed. So I decided I would do some writing for him.

And the biggest problem with that was that at that point in time, there was nothing to validate what he was saying. The product seemed to work. We love Dr. Emoto’s work. This was way back when, even before that really had gained acceptance. And so I was excited about the product, but there was no literature to support it. I kept bumping into this Korean doctor and every time I’d bump into the name, it was spelled differently. Supposedly he had some evidence that there was some science behind all of this, but there was nothing in English. So I just kept looking and searching and we were doing okay with the writing. It wasn’t too long after that that I got contacted by another company, a Korean company, that was marketing a structured water device. So in connecting with that company and doing some writing for them, I said to the owner who was Korean, the next time you go to Korea, see if you can find this scientist who may have even written a book.

Because we need something to stand on here. You’re getting hammered a little bit by the scientific community which calls this snake oil. It was one of those, it was on the edge, right? The concept of structured water. I said we need some support. So one Sunday morning I got a phone call from Korea and this fellow was there having lunch with a doctor, a very well accredited scientist of water. And he did have a book. It had been translated into Japanese but nothing in English. And so the question for me that Sunday morning was, are you interested in helping him publish his book in English? Later who didn’t know a thing about science? Anyway, that’s how I got my background into the molecular structure of water. Over the next nine months, I got to read many and receive some very high science awards in Korea, just not the English community was not aware of him.

So because this is one of those subjects that doesn’t follow the rules of the scientific community, and still it’s still a hard one to explain to a certain degree, but we have a lot more today than we did. So we spent the next nine months getting his material together and we published his book under the title, The Water Puzzle and the Hexagonal Key. So that’s maybe a good introduction to this whole subject for your audience. He was the one who coined the term hexagonal water. And there’s a connection there with the hexagonal snowflake-type crystals that Dr. Emoto was showing. So there’s this interesting connection at a, I’m going to say above so below kind of level where this hexagonal structuring at a molecular level is visible at the snowflake level. Dr. Mu Shik Jhon did a really good job in his book of helping to describe how water could even be structured.

I mean, we think of the word structure and we think brick and mortar and water is not structured like that because it’s too mobile, it’s too dynamic. But there are circumstances where because water is a polar molecule, those molecules will line up and form a repeating hexagonal geometry. Then there is a bit more stability. The interesting thing, let me go back that Dr. Mu Shik Jhon did was he did some science with the human body. He is the one who showed originally that the DNA is surrounded by this hexagonal geometry very tightly. In fact, it supports the DNA, the first computer simulations that they ever ran. The DNA fell apart. It was the water that provided the stability. And in healthy DNA, that water right around the DNA is structured with this specific geometry. However, he also showed that cancerous DNA did not have the same level of structuring. And so the DNA itself was not as stable.

He is the one who made some interesting connections between aging and the amount of structured water that we hold in our bodies showing that youthful bodies had a greater degree of this particular structuring in the water. And that dissipated with age. He did some of the first clinical studies that showed that drinking this type of water, improved bowel transit time through the colon, which has some interesting implications for people who have a hard time staying hydrated and end up with constipation. He showed there were connections with the immune system, and he showed there were connections in the respiratory system.

So he really established some groundwork that scientists could kind of launch from. Anyway, it was a great privilege to work with him in the beginning and to get my understanding of this topic and be able to continue to do some writing. And honestly, after we published his book, I devoted the rest of my life to the study of water. Honestly, that’s kind of how it came about. I was just so intrigued by the whole thing. And yet even with the publication of his book, we still got a lot of flack. Back in those days, if you had looked up either his name or my name on the internet, we would’ve shown up on all the Quackwatch sites.

Dr. Wendy Myers: I love that. Well, now that’s a badge of honor.

MJ Pangman: True. And now we’ve moved on to some other things that still keep us on the cutting edge and maybe we’ll have a chance to get into some of those today. But that’s kind of the background to give your audience a little bit of information on and maybe I can go into some greater detail later on what makes this structure so important and how does it really happen? I don’t want to get too scientific with your audience.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, and I think a lot of people don’t really understand that they’re maybe drinking filtered water, but that they need to restructure it as well. And you can also do infrared saunas and create structured water in your body as well. And that’s why they help keep you young. And that’s a great explanation that you just mentioned about losing structured water as we age. But let’s talk about how people can get structured water in their bodies. What are your suggestions for increasing that?

MJ Pangman: Well, I guess honestly the first thing that I have to say, because to answer the question, there are lots of different devices that have been created, but honestly, the first thing that comes to my mind when you ask this question at this moment is to spend time in nature. Because of all of the resonances and all of the frequencies of nature, true nature, I mean certainly we live in a day in an age where we are isolated from the earth, standing on the earth is important. That whole concept is another story entirely. But being exposed to the frequencies of nature, frequency, and sound is one of the things that will bring molecular structure to water. And it’s one of those ways that nature does it. And that’s what our investigation has been all about. Now, I’m going to say that I have a co-author of the book that I ended up writing, which is called Dancing with Water.

And she and I have been involved over the last number of years of just kind of identifying the ways that nature does this any way that we’ve gotten away from, and some of the things that stop nature from holding the water in its natural structure like this. You told me you had some study of Viktor Schauberger’s work, and he was the classic example of this. He was looking to nature to find the truth. Honestly, he was not educated in the traditional system. So how can people do this? Spending time in nature is number one for their bodies that will help their bodies to hold the resonance. So one of the things that nature does is keep water moving. Viktor Schauberger did a lot of work with vortices showing that vortices organize matter. He did some interesting experiments in Germany a long time ago showing that if they put tiny particles in a vortex, those particles would come together so tightly that it was like a ball of cement at the end because vortices organize matter including water.

So whenever water is moving, it’s creating vortices on different levels. They can be big ones that you and I see. But honestly, every time water hits a rock, it curls back and creates a vortex. So nature is keeping water moving for the most part. It provides spaces for movement, it provides spaces for stillness. And all of these things come together to help keep the structure of water. For people, we’ve found that spinning water within a magnetic field is a very good and very simple way to create this type of water that’s easy to drink. So there are devices out there. I mean, seriously, people could tape magnets to a pitcher and stir it, and that would affect the water. So one of the things Melanie and I wanted to do when we wrote the book Dancing with Water was say, “Hey, it doesn’t have to cost you an arm and a leg. It doesn’t have to be difficult. You have things that you can do now that will support the structure of the water in your body and provide ways for you to drink it every day.”

Honestly, one of the first little books that I wrote was testimonials from people who were just drinking this type of water and they were all over the place from improvements in energy and wellbeing to improvements in respiratory conditions. And I don’t want to mention a lot of things because that’s one of those things we can’t really get into these days without getting in trouble. But honestly, there are a plethora of things that improve for people. Everything related to hydration. So just spinning water within a magnetic field is easy, but tuning forks will bring structure to water.

Of course, you’ve got to be particular about the frequencies that you choose, but there are many of those frequencies, I’m sure your crowd is familiar with those kinds of things. They’ll all bring structure to water. One of the most beautiful resonances that will bring structure to water is the resonance of the earth. So placing a glass of water on the earth in the quiet stillness or at night to be exposed to the stars, those frequencies, all the frequencies in nature help to support the structure of the water on the planet. And they can be used by ourselves too. So frequencies, sound, light, and all kinds of things will bring structure to the water.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Well, that’s how we make tea in Texas is we put the tea bags in the water on the ground in the sun.

MJ Pangman: There you go.

Dr. Wendy Myers: And that’s why that tea tastes so good.

MJ Pangman: Sure. The sun’s infusing the tea into the water. So you’ve got all of those elements going on. Yeah.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so that’s interesting. Talk about the biofield tuning, I talk about that a lot for helping to use frequencies to release emotional traumas from your energy field. And also with water. I literally say commands, I use words to infuse water with information and then drink it, and lots of interesting things you can do. But so in the book that you wrote, Dancing with Water, you use the term full spectrum living water. Is that what you just explained right there?

MJ Pangman: Kind of in part, let me go into the details of that. There is creating structure to water and then there’s bringing some other elements into the water to give it this full spectrum and the life force. So like I said, there are many ways to bring structure to water, including all the ones that we mentioned. But you also want that water to remain structured. That was always a question that we got a lot of grief from the scientific community on. You can’t stabilize this. Yes, it may be stable around the DNA, but you’ve got electrical forces there at play that help hold the structure of the water, but you can’t hold this in a glass of water. Well, if you create a degree of what physics refers to as quantum coherence, if you create coherence, you can create a substance that although it’s dynamic and, let me explain the water network before we go too far.

Water is a polar substance. It has a positively and a negatively charged side, which means that another water molecule is going to be attracted to either the positive or negative side of the next one. And so water is a network, typically it’s a randomly organized network where we’ve got all these water molecules that are attracted to each other. And most of the time that’s random. But under some circumstances that we talked about, water will begin to arrange in hexagonal rings and those hexagonal rings can line up in sheets to create a coherent domain where yes, each one of those molecules is a separate unit, but coherence means there’s a relationship between them and that they function as a whole. So it’s like a sheet blowing in the wind, and maybe that’s kind of behind the wave motion, water’s a laminar substance. So it’s also my best example of coherence is a school of fish.

They all swim together, they don’t turn and then somebody else turns. It’s not like a wave on a football field. It’s not like that. It’s like when they turn all together, how do they know to do that? They’re operating at a level of coherence. And so you want to bring coherence to the water, and there are things that can be done there too. So I mean, we’ve measured the stability of the water for days and days sitting on a counter, as long as it’s not exposed to some of the things that mess with the structure of water like our electromagnetic fields, the Wi-Fi, the cell phones, and all that. If you keep it away from all of that or protect it, there are ways to do that too. The water will maintain its structure for a long time. Okay. So you need to bring coherence to the water.

And when you do that, you can measure how a field begins to develop around the water. Water’s got to a field of energy around it because it’s a living essence. And that’s another point too, that we really want to communicate for the world. We just need to get used to treating water as a life force, a living, breathing essence. But the greater the degree of life force that the water can hold is improved by structure and coherence, the greater the field that it will emanate, which can be measured with photon capture techniques. Anyway, then you want to be sure that the water has minerals. We can talk about that at some point. And then the water must be exposed to these frequencies in nature. Then we have what we call a full spectrum living water and energy field is measurable just like yours and mine.

Dr. Wendy Myers: And that’s a tall order. That’s a tall order for your water.

MJ Pangman: Correct.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Your water goals.

MJ Pangman: And it doesn’t have to be. Yeah, it doesn’t seem so hard.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, those are your water goals to have all those boxes checked. But what about minerals and water? So you mentioned that I talk a lot about minerals on this podcast and their importance. And so how do minerals affect water? Because I’ve put minerals in my water, various different types of minerals, but you need minerals to hold onto that water, correct? Can you talk about the whole interplay of minerals and water?

MJ Pangman: Yeah. Some people say, how can you maintain a structure, these hexagonal structures that are linked together if you add minerals to the water? Well, it’s a good question. It’s one that actually took me a long time to figure out a way to explain. But minerals actually act as nucleating zones. And what happens with the minerals, if minerals go into the water in an ionic form, they also have a charge. So now you have charged minerals in water that’s got a little bit of a charge to each side of it. So what happens is that water is attracted to the charge on the minerals and it builds a layer around each mineral, each ion. The smaller, the better. And that’s why we like to add minerals in the form of salts. And I know you have probably talked about this as well on many occasions, because they’re in ionic form, they act as nucleating zones.

The water will form a layer of hexagonal ring structure around it that’s very tightly held to those mineral ions. And then the layers outside are a little bit less and less and less tightly held. But as you build this, it becomes a coherent domain. And because of the charges that happen when you add one hexagonal ring structure to the next one, in order to hold that structure, the water has to kick out a proton. And I don’t want to get too technical, but structured water has a negative charge to it. So these domains of structured water around each mineral have a negative charge to them. That means there has to be a positive charge outside of that domain, and that’ll be positively charged. But of course, now you have a deeper level of complexity going on here where you have negatively charged domains attracted to the positive areas which are attracting the next domain.

And you build a deeper level of structure to the water. And this water, because of the minerals, holds its structure. Minerals help hold the structure. Ocean water is a very structured medium. The minerals hold the life force. In many ways, they are the life force. And so you are able to carry the minerals with this more energized form of water that is able to deliver them at a cellular level because the water’s more vibrant, often getting minerals into the cell is just about knocking on the cell door, the cell membrane with energy, you got to have energy to get the water in. So minerals are very important and they just add to the complexity of the structure.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yes. And so you have a book or you have a chapter in your book on the importance of gasses in water. And so this is an interesting concept as well. Can you talk about that and some of the benefits that that can provide?

MJ Pangman: Well, we go into the whole several chapters actually, but one chapter is called Therapeutic Types of Water. And of course, the obvious gasses that are contained in water are hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen and oxygen are the energy currencies of the body. So water will always have a degree of free hydrogen and free oxygen in it, but often not a lot. If you enhance the water by adding more hydrogen and more oxygen, it does a similar thing as the minerals do, and you can end up building greater complexity to the structure of the water. So that kind of thing is easily explained. And by adding more hydrogen, there are lots of therapeutic benefits for doing that. People can imagine the same is true for adding oxygen to the water. And carbon dioxide is another thing as well. It’s a trace gas, but it’s very important in maintaining the bicarbonate buffering system in the body. So you need carbon dioxide in the water too. Enhancing the water with these gasses will provide therapeutic waters, which just have their own benefits.

Dr. Wendy Myers: And so there’s also a growing interest in the concept of Ormus. So what is that exactly? And what does Ormus have to do with water?

MJ Pangman: The fun subject, once again, breaks the rules. Scientists are kind of still ignoring this whole idea, but back in the 1990s, a fellow was doing some interesting mining for gold, and the land and the minerals showed up in gold. But when he went through the refining process, all he ended up with was this white powder. And your audience may already be making this connection between gold and white powder gold. And now we’re talking about Ormus. Ormus is a high-spin state of matter where atoms are spinning so rapidly that they become inert. They don’t want to have anything to do with any other atoms, so they like to stay isolated in this high spin state. And their properties change. Obviously, gold turned into something that wasn’t gold for this fellow who was mining, and he had to go through a long process to figure out just what was going on.

Well, they spin so fast that they develop an energy field around them to maintain their isolation. They don’t want to combine with any other elements. They don’t want to form compounds. They would like to just spin as individual atoms or tiny groups of atoms. This energy field is called a Meissner field. If enough of them gather together, they don’t want to interact with other atoms. But the Meissner fields themselves can create this coherent domain. In a coherent domain of energy fields, Meissner fields energy can be transmitted with zero resistance theoretically. So that honestly is the definition of superconductivity, and that’s energy transfer right now, it’s energy transfer of clear, clear signals, powerful signals beyond the way that crystals can transfer signals because it’s in the now, and according to science, it’s not possible at room temperature. But this is where Ormus is giving us an opportunity to look at the rules and say, “Hey, maybe it’s time to look at these rules again and rewrite some of the textbooks.”

Turns out that natural spring water has a high degree of these elements spinning in their high spin state. Not all elements will do this. And let me explain what happens. Before I do that, let me also say that plants that are watered with Ormus-enriched water grow faster and yield bigger fruit and they have some tolerance to insects and drought and that kind of thing. When humans drink this ormus-enriched water, they have reported new states of well-being and new states of consciousness besides some other interesting benefits as well. I won’t go into all of those, but water, when it comes naturally to the surface of the earth, brings its elements in this high spin state. So like I said, not all elements will enter this high spin state. It’s about the condition of the outer electron shell around these atoms. All atoms have a different number of protons and electrons.

Those electrons are organized in shells around each atom, and when they fill one shell, they begin another. So in some atoms, that outer shell is not filled because it doesn’t have that many electrons. And this is why elements tend to combine with each other. It makes sense. They will share electrons so that they can have a full electron shell, but there’s another way that they can find balance and stability for that outer electron shell. And that’s when two electrons decide to spin together. Two unpaired electrons in that outer electron shell can spin together. And I’m oversimplifying, but when that happens, that’s what causes these atoms to spin in this really high spin state and to isolate themselves. So it’s called Cooper pairing. When that happens, the Ormus state comes into being, and then that atom is trying to isolate itself and stay in that high spin state.

So not all of the elements will enter this because of the condition of their outer electron shell, but we have identified a number of things like gold, silver, platinum, palladium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium. Those are some of the first, and since then others have been identified, but it would appear when we do biofeedback testing. And that’s one of the things that Melanie and I do a lot to test the efficacy of what we’re looking at and what we’re doing with the water. How much are we affecting the body’s response to this new form of water? When we do biofeedback testing, the Ormus is very well received by the body. In fact, they found large quantities of it in the brain. So we don’t know everything except that depending on the elements that are spinning in the high spin state when you add them to water, you can activate these elements.

If they’re in the water, they can be activated. There are ways even spinning the water within a magnetic field, which is this way of structuring the water, will also activate Ormus elements, which can be very interesting. It’s another one of those therapeutic waters that I mentioned. We identify in the book Dancing with Water. So the way that people make this is they gather salts because the ocean is the best way to find these trace elements that are high in Ormus elements. And then there are ways to concentrate them. And there are Ormus products that people can find on the internet that have some interesting benefits. Most of the research has probably been done with gold, and there are some beautiful benefits there, even with anti-aging and psychological and emotional benefits for drinking Ormus in the water. So yeah, there is an interest in Ormus that’s coming and it has some connections to some other things.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. And so you also, you’ve written an in-depth article on your website about Watt-Ahh. This is the water I’ve talked about before and I’ve had the inventor Rob Gourley on the show, and that’s infused with a DiTetra Gas. So it’s like the gaseous state of water infused into water. Can you share some of your research and insights on Watt-Ahh? Because I love this Watt-Ahh. I have been drinking it for years, and I had a really profound experience with it. When I first started drinking it, I was pretty much high for about four days. I got a lot of energy and oxygen in my brain. I clearly started working a lot better. And so I just want to tell as many people as I can about Watt-Ahh and its benefits. What are your experiences with it?

MJ Pangman: I love your experience first because mine was a little bit more subtle, but we get lots of inquiries from people asking, do you know this product or was this one any good or whatever. And it was Melanie who said, “Hey, we got to look at this one.” She’s more intuitive and very sensitive, and she’s the one who alerted us. So we read the website and we went, “Whoa, this is different. This isn’t one of those designer waters that people are making, just adding frequencies to the water.” No, this was very different. So I read the white papers and then I got in and I read the patent documents, and then I got really, really excited. So you’ve said that this is the addition of gas to water, and the beauty of it is that the gas is only made of water.

It’s two water molecules that are combined with some extra electrons. And here again, this is one of those that breaks all the rules because there’s no way to explain this according to science. That’s not going to work, that’s not possible. You can’t add those hydrogen atoms to two molecules of water. It doesn’t work according to the standard definition of science. So I was really excited about that and we decided to try it. So our experience was just Wendy, we took the water as it was and drank it for three months or approximately, and we did biofeedback testing. Wendy, it was so off the charts that we practically had to design a new chart to even get it on the chart. It’s so energetically off the chart from the biofeedback perspective, and if we were feeling a little down or if a cold was approaching or something like that, that was really what could help fight back from our perspective.

But then we said to ourselves, “Hey, the water is still empty. That’s our term for demineralized water. What’s going to happen when we add the minerals? So we’ve talked about all these subjects now, what happens in Watt-Ahh when you add the minerals?” Well, we came to some ways to add the minerals and we got an even greater response on the biofeedback. Everybody’s in a different place, and we found that it was really better to do this at a slow pace, add the minerals then slowly. The body has to get used to receiving minerals in this much of an energized state, but there was that much more benefit.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, I agree. Minerals really detox the body, and most people are severely deficient in minerals, and when they take something like Watt-Ahh really gets those minerals into your cells. It really helps any nutrient get into your cells much more efficiently. So you can actually absorb them and you have to be careful with minerals. They’re going to detox you and people can have detox reactions and things like that.

MJ Pangman: Good point to alert your audience to, because the minerals are valuable. But as with anything new, that’s that powerful, you’re going to be careful. Just start slow. And some people require more minerals. I have my own adrenal issues and I require more minerals than Melanie, my co-author of the book. But anyway, we added the minerals and we thought, okay, so what’s next? What else can we do with this water? And we have a ceramic water cradle we call it that really helps this whole coherent idea for water. So we put the water in that and we thought, okay, let’s take it to another level. But you know, some interesting things happened, and after a couple of days we were testing the water, it was like, “Hey, don’t drink this.” And we went, “Wait a minute, what’s happening here?” So looking deeper and thinking about this more, reading some more, and reading again through the research, it dawned on me that this water was in an Ormus state.

And Ormus has an interesting noted propert. Ormus in water is beautiful and Ormus sticks in water happily because it can isolate itself and create little cages in the water. Those cages of course then create coherent domains where those domains can line up to be if it’s an Ormus thing going on. Those cages are transferring energy, like we said, in a superconductive way, and that can explain a lot of interesting things about the energy here that’s in this water. So it dawned on me that maybe this gas itself was a high-spin gas, and that’s what was going on there. So I went back and read some of the studies that Rob had done when he submitted his patent and one of the things that I found was this interesting conductivity resistivity study where he showed that when you added the gas to the water, the electrical conductivity was going down, which it shouldn’t when you add anything to water, remember distilled water doesn’t conduct energy very well, the electricity very well.

So when you add anything to water, especially minerals, but anything, the conductivity should have increased, but it didn’t. The other thing that happened was that resistivity also went down, and that doesn’t make any sense either according to the rules. If conductivity goes down, that’s because there’s more resistance. But this didn’t happen unless you think about this DiTetra Gas as an Ormus gas, which is spinning so rapidly that it’s got Meissner fields around it that can create a coherent domain and now transfer energy at superconductive levels. I don’t think anybody has shown this, but that’s our hypothesis and that actually fits a lot of what’s going on. So the other thing that was a big clue that this was an Ormus thing going on was that Mr. Gourley did an interesting study where he sent the DiTetra Gas through a membrane along with molecular oxygen. Well, which of those is bigger?

DiTetra Gas has two oxygens and four hydrogens and extra electrons next to two oxygens in molecular hydrogen. So which one is bigger? Well, the obvious answer is that the DiTetra Gas is bigger and it’ll come through the membrane last, but it didn’t go through first. And that’s an indicator of an Ormus gas because when that spins like this, what happens in a vortex? You organize and condense matter. So now we have a smaller molecule because it’s spinning so fast. And the last big clue for me in saying this is what we’ve got here in the Watt-Ahh is superconductive water is that nobody could really explain what was going on with this hydrogen, these extra electrons unless there are two pairs of cooper paired electrons there, and that’s what causes everything to spin. So to us, it was like, “Okay, this one’s really obvious.”

We have limited methods in our scientific community of really looking at the molecular level and the atomic subatomic level. I think in the next few years we’re going to improve on that, but at this point in time we have to just look at the evidence and the evidence says, “Hey, this is amazing water. And no wonder you would feel such a surge of energy.” And no wonder other people feel as much that water is fully energized, capable of sending signals right now, clear, clean, crisp signals to your body. Everything’s going to work better. Those minerals are going to go in better. And that was our big aha about Watt-Ahh was, “Hey,” and that’s why it was not doing well. I am going to explain this too, because it did not do well in that ceramic container because it was actually breaking the container down very slowly. Typically, ceramic and water don’t interact. The high heat keeps that interaction from happening. Then I remembered something that Rob had said about putting it in glass.

Well, the same thing would be happening. There are little tiny pores in glass and then the Ormus tunnels because trying to stay isolated, it just goes, fills a little space, but because of the energy in it, it ends up starting to break that down. So there are things in glass that typically do not transfer to the human body, but under these circumstances, we got, “Hey, keep the water in the plastic.” And when we did the biofeedback testing on all of that was yes, that plastic is actually quite inert with the energy field of the water. It’s actually keeping it away from the plastic for some reason, the interaction of the plastic is not the same as the little pores. The little pores are different enough that the plastic is okay. I understand that the Gourleys have done energy experiments where they’ve shown photon capture techniques that show that the energy of the water after two years of sitting in that plastic bottle is still very vibrant and very alive. So We’re excited about Watt-Ahh, and I know you are too.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, I love Watt-Ahh. And people do have resistance sometimes to it like, “Oh, it’s that some plastic, I don’t buy water in plastic,” and this is not the same. This is not water. Okay? It’s not. This is something that is supercharged with oxygen and electrons and energy, and your mitochondria run on oxygen. So they do run on nutrients and things like that for the Krebs cycle, but one of the main waves they operate is through oxygen. So this water feeds your mitochondria oxygen, and as a result of the electrons and hydrogen, all this stuff energizing your body, you feel a lot better. Your brain lights up, my brain lit up. I mean, it was just really a surreal experience. And I knew that there was something to this water, and I’ve been talking about it for years, and I had a lot more energy as well. I was having trouble sleeping just for a couple of days, but I wasn’t tired at all, even though I was just so stimulated. I probably drank way too much when I first started.

MJ Pangman: You could have.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, I think I just like woo-hoo. And I just drank a whole liter of it. You’re supposed to start with a quarter liter, but I was like, “Forget it. I’m just going to drink it.” But yeah, and it’s super hydrating. It’s not your typical water. You don’t need to worry about the plastic, the benefits are just off the charts. So we don’t care about the plastic in this instance.

MJ Pangman: It’s not interacting with the water. That’s the result of our investigation. That was our experience and our look at it’s not interacting with the plastic, so don’t worry about the plastic. In fact, when we’ve explored other ways to use the water too, we just have to think first, “Hey, no, we’re not putting this in a glass atomizer. Just keep it in plastic.” So yeah, your people should know that because there isn’t an aversion to plastic, but it doesn’t need to be in this case. Normally I would say yes, but not under these circumstances. We’ve had fun playing with it.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah. If you guys want to learn more about Watt-Ahh, I’ve done two podcasts with Rob Gourley that you guys can listen to. So tell me more about your experience with Watt-Ahh. Are there any other applications that you’re using it for besides just drinking it for hydration oxygen, and electrons, et cetera?

MJ Pangman: Well, whenever we think of anything that we do with water, we end up thinking, “Hey, what if we did it with Watt-Ahh?” And so we just look at as many ways as you can imagine to use the Watt-Ahh instead of just regular water. Well, most of the time we find that how we use it is a little bit different, that we need less of whatever it is we’re doing. One of the first things that I tried was something that Mr. Gourley had recommended in some of his papers: the use of this facial steamer. It does make your face soft, but what I noticed was my eyesight improved because I left my eyes open in the steamer. And so as I did this very faithfully for a number of weeks, and I haven’t maintained that, but very faithfully for a number of weeks, my eyesight was definitely improved.

And I know he’s done research with ophthalmologists who are getting some amazing benefits for the eyes. Now your eyes are all water. They’re water. So giving them this form of water is very healing and very soothing. I actually use a nebulizer and putting the Watt-Ahh in the nebulizer rather than other things or along with other things, you get the benefit of the nebulizer in warp speed, but just using it by itself is very soothing for the respiratory tract, whether or not you’ve got something going on or not. And I’ll even put that on my eyes and let that nebulize Watt-Ahh just go on my eyes. It’s kind of a lot easier than getting a facial steamer out. So that one’s very fun. Melanie was telling me the other day that one of her grandchildren got a booboo and she put some lavender essential oil in a bottle of Watt-Ahh and sprayed it on him, and it was almost immediate for him. He was out playing again, and that was that.

So anything that you would normally do in regular water, think about trying it in the Watt-Ahh. It doesn’t often take very much, but yeah, little things like that. We recently explored clay as a detox in the Watt-Ahh, and that’s been fun because it takes very little clay. Clay is one of those substances that’s got a huge surface area negatively charged. So of course it attracts a lot of the stuff that we’re trying to get rid of: those heavy metals and a lot of pollutants, pharmaceutical residues, that kind of thing in the body, positively charged bacteria and all that. Anyway, clay cleanses the intestine supporting the liver and all the other elimination organs have been very valuable. But I did an interesting experiment in the beginning. We like to use hydrated clay, so we just put a tablespoon of clay and a cup of water and just let the water imbibe into the clay and then shake it up and just take a little tiny bit a couple of times a day with a cup of Watt-Ahh.

But what I noticed when I put the water in Watt-Ahh, I put some Watt-Ahh and some filtered water and just let the clay imbibe. And that process of the water getting into the clay happened faster in the Watt-Ahh. But the really fun thing was that when the water had completely permeated the clay, the clay would fall to the bottom and you’ll get pretty clear water on the top with this lump of clay at the bottom, except in the Watt-Ahh, the water wasn’t clear. So I had two bottles of water with clay in it in the Watt-Ahh bottle. The clay was interspersed in the water, which just gives you this understanding that there is energetically something more going on in that water. The filtered water was clear and the clay was at the bottom after a couple of hours, but not in the Watt-Ahh. It was all throughout. So it was being dispersed and you were getting this very organized, coherent domain developing, and I just knew intuitively what was going on there.

Dr. Wendy Myers: I’ve heard Rob Gourley saying that . Say you’re taking supplements and maybe things that don’t dissolve very well, like my CitriCleanse, it doesn’t dissolve that great water, but you can put that in Watt-Ahh and use probably a lot less of it, and it will dissolve much easier, faster. It’ll absorb a lot, be absorbed a lot better by your body and metabolize a lot easier.

MJ Pangman: Yeah, and you probably need a little bit less, I’m not helping your sales.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, no, but it’s okay. It’s one of those things like why not take less of it or use a quarter or a half of what you actually need because you’re absorbing more of it, it doesn’t matter what you supplement with or eat, it only matters what you absorb.

MJ Pangman: It takes energy to digest and if you give your body all these supplements, it still has to work with them. But if you can give the body less and have the same effects, and that’s the beauty of everything, the body’s saying yes to that one.

Dr. Wendy Myers: And I think that it’s really profound that you can take, say, peptides or minerals and absorb more of those or any kind. Put them in your smoothie and you’re going to absorb way more of that than you normally would. But there are also a lot of other uses for Watt-Ahh also. I mean, I actually will use it on my face. I’ll spray it on my skin before I go to bed. And there are so many different uses for it. It’s also a potent detoxifier because it energizes your cells and it gives a negative charge to your cells so they work better and they detox better also. It’s not just about nutrients getting in. The toxins get out as well, the cellular byproducts.

MJ Pangman: Right. Correct. Yeah. As I said, anything you think of that you can do with water, consider trying it with Watt-Ahh and just notice the difference because, like yourself, I spray my skin, especially after sunburn. That works wonderfully. I’ll spray my eyes every night before I go to bed and that’s all good.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, I hadn’t thought about steaming my face and getting the gas in your eyes because Rob talks about using his Witt Machine. This Witt Machine is how they create the gas that they infuse into the water, and he has doctors, and ophthalmologists spraying people’s eyes and they’re regaining their vision, improving their vision. So I was like, “I need to get my hands on that Witt Machine so I don’t have to wear glasses anymore.”

MJ Pangman: Yeah, me too.

Dr. Wendy Myers: But if you can steam, you’re going to release the gas and-

MJ Pangman: But the nebulizer was even easier, Wendy, because of a nebulizer you’re using less Watt-Ahh. You just have to read a book and put this in your eye. You can be doing something else. You don’t have to have your face over a steamer. Of course, the nice heat on the face is good too. But anyway.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Oh, nice. Yeah, I haven’t thought about that.

MJ Pangman: I found that easier.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Great.

MJ Pangman: The nebulizer works good for your eyes.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah. So any other insights on Watt-Ahh or anything else that you can think of any more benefits and things like that?

MJ Pangman: Oh, not off the cuff. Other than that, we’re just very excited. And we know that as soon as a lid comes off on some of the science that’s been hidden from us for many years, some interesting things are going to come out about this gas. Honestly, it was the gas when I read the patent documents that got me excited and I thought, “Oh my gosh, these things are not possible. And yet they were.” And that’s exactly what we found when we did our research with it. These things are not possible, and yet there they were.

Dr. Wendy Myers: And I think the point is this is not typical bottled water. This is an extremely energized oxygenated healing water that I think everyone needs to be drinking, especially if people have lung issues, or are having trouble breathing. My uncle was in the hospital, he was hospitalized and he had COPD and he was having trouble breathing. I’m like, “Go to my mom’s and grab that Watt-Ahh.” And my mom, I had her drink it, and her husband and my cousin went to get some Watt-Ahh and bring it to him. And he was doing so much better because he wasn’t able to get the oxygen from his lungs. He did it at the backdoor. He drank this water with oxygen and was able to oxygenate his tissues. So there’s a lot of applications in that way as well.

MJ Pangman: I will say something else, when we connected with Watt-Ahh, and especially when our bodies connected with Watt-Ahh, we actually quit endorsing a lot of hydrogen-enriched water products because the Watt-Ahh delivers it in balance. And our bodies were saying, “No, I don’t want that hydrogen-enriched water anymore, and I don’t want that oxygenated water anymore because you’ve given me something that delivers it in a better balance.” And that was the beauty of that. So the body appreciates balance, always balance in nature, and that’s one of the reasons I think the mitochondrial studies have been so profound is that everything is being delivered in balance, in energized fashion, and the body doesn’t have to work so hard to get the job done.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, I agree with you on hydrogen water. That’s why I’ve never had anyone on the podcast talking about hydrogen water because it just never really made a lot of sense to me, like you said, the Watt-Ahh, you need oxygen and hydrogen, it’s like taking soy protein isolate. Your body has to work way harder than, say, having a whey protein that has all the cofactors needed to digest everything in it. The water’s the same way, it needs to be whole. And so you need oxygen and hydrogen, not just hydrogen.

MJ Pangman: Correct.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah.

MJ Pangman: Yeah. There’s the go. So we’re impressed with the balance of it. And our bodies are not having any of these other imbalanced products. They are great therapeutically in testing, and the athletes love the hydrogen-rich water. It helps them with recovery and everything else, but I think they just haven’t had Watt-Ahh to test themselves too.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yes.

MJ Pangman: So given the opportunity, the body makes the choice.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yes. And so I just really encourage everyone to try Watt-Ahh, especially if you’re ill, especially if you’re chronically fatigued. You need energy, you need oxygen, you need hydrogen. And the water also has protons in it as well. That really helps to revitalize people. It’s just absolutely amazing on so many levels. And so Mj, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your website, your book, your work, and where we can learn more about you?

MJ Pangman: Well, Melanie and I think I said we wrote this book to give people some choices about how they could energize and structure their water and do it very easily with the right background. So that is just a little bit of understanding. And so the front end of the book is the basics. Here’s the way nature does this. Here’s how you can kind of emulate nature. And the second half of the book is, there are lots of products that have been developed, some of them very simple, some of them expensive, but here’s how you can use those. Here’s how you can use the earth stones. Here’s how you can use plants. Homeopathy is based on the fact that water becomes structured and transfers information. Water is a great information transfer. So we developed the website, which is an educational website.

We’ve got lots of articles on there including this three-part article that we wrote on Watt-Ahh, which is our deepest research since we actually published the second edition of Dancing with Water. So is our work and water is our future. Our idea is to really help people begin to develop a deeper conscious relationship with water. Your whole idea of speaking words to the water was Dr. Emoto’s idea. And that honestly is big. If you can hold your glass of water to your heart and let the fields of energy interact for a minute, that water works better for you, because you have allowed that energy interaction to go on. So that’s our message to the world. We’d like to help people just understand how to step up to the dance and get water to the dance floor in a new way.

Dr. Wendy Myers: And that’s why I use so many podcasts on water because this is the very basic foundational thing you have to get right if you want to be healthy and live a long time look good when you get old and have the energy that you want, the brain function, you have to be hydrated and you need to do that for life. And people drinking, just let’s say a regular bottle of spring water thinking they’re doing the right thing and there’s way more to it than just that. There are a lot more things that we talked about on the show that you can do to improve the hydration and utilization of that water. So lots to think about and chew on here.

And if you guys want to try some Watt-Ahh, you can go to and order it or, just how it sounds. Don’t buy it anywhere else. One of my clients told me they bought it from China and it ended up being a lot cheaper than buying it directly from the company. So buyer beware, there’s someone in China copying the Watt-Ahh. Don’t be fooled by the price. There’s cheaper shipping. Of course, it’s such a crazy China. They’re always copying everything and just printing it. So be careful. You can only get it on US or Just want to make sure so nobody else is fooled like my client was.

MJ Pangman: Very Good. Very good. The AquaNew people are good people.

Dr. Wendy Myers: Yeah, they’re amazing.

MJ Pangman: They’re good people. Yeah.

Dr. Wendy Myers: I love them. Rob Gourley and his wife Dana. Well, MJ, thanks much for coming on the show.

MJ Pangman: You’re welcome.

Dr. Wendy Myers: And thanks for giving us information about your work, your expertise on water and your testimony and your research about Watt-Ahh as well. So again, thanks for coming on the show, and everyone, I’m Dr. Wendy Myers. Thank you so much for joining me and taking the time to spend time with me every week where I bring you experts around the world. I want to give you those pieces of the puzzle, a little bit of tidbits of information to help you upgrade your health because you do deserve to feel good. And so it’s just my privilege to be able to help you do that. And so we are honing in on our 500th episode. I’ve been doing this for 10 years and it’s just been such a joy and a privilege and I have a lot more work to do. Not going to be stopping this podcast anytime soon. Hopefully, I’ll go to 20 years or even 30 years, let’s see how things pan out here. But I have a lot more to say. So thanks for tuning in.