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  • 01:00 What Is a Choice Point?
  • 05:00 How Did Choice Point The Movie come to be?
  • 07:30 Choice Point is Beyond the Law of Attraction
  • 09:00 The Choice Point Philosophy: Understand Your World, Align Your Purpose, and Be the Change!
  • 17:00 Choice Points and the Individual Journey
  • 21:00 Discovering Your Unique Ability and Putting It to Work
  • 23:30 7 Core Characteristics
  • 25:30 The Role of Emotions
  • 27:30 Letting Go of Repetitive Patterns
  • 31:30 Tapping into Energy and Shifting the Collective Field
  • 34:00 Your Role as a Creator
  • 36:30 Wise Choices Can Help Make a Better World
  • 41:30 Learning to Master Ourselves
  • 46:00 Dr. Izzo’s Own Choice Points
  • 50:00 How Dr. Izzo Uses Choice Point in his Chiropractic Practice
  • 53:30 Harry’s Choice Point Journey
  • 1:02:00 How to Attend a Choice Point Course and Connect with Dr. Izzo

Harry Massey: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Supercharged podcast. I’m really happy today to be joined by Doctor Lenny Izzo, who is the founder of the first Choice Point center in America. He’s also been a chiropractor for 25 years, and also been spokesperson for a number of wellness companies.

Hi, Lenny. How are you doing?

Dr. Lenny Izzo: Good, Harry. Glad to be here. Glad to be with you and glad to be speaking to those who are listening right now.

Harry: Perfect. We should probably dig into what Choice Point is. Obviously, it’s slightly peculiar, because I actually wrote and directed a film called Choice Point. What does Choice Point mean to you?

Dr. Lenny: [00:01:00] Choice Point. Actually, I had been using that terminology. One of my centers, the one that I’d been practicing at … My whole change in practice and evolution has gone from the Center for Health, Healing & Attunement at one time to Center Point and from Center Point to Choice Point. So, there’s been this evolving name change. Actually, I’ve been practicing for 38 years. When I heard Choice Point and I first read your book-

Harry: I thought you were much younger than that.

Dr. Lenny: [Laughing] Yeah, I’ve been around for a little bit. The term Choice Point refers to changes people are involved in. Everybody that comes into a doctor’s office, I believe, is at some Choice Point, is at some point in their life where they need to make different choices, and we see that-

Harry: [inaudible 00:01:49]

Dr. Lenny: Go ahead!

Harry: Yeah, basically, it’s a point in people’s lives, where if they take one particular choice it could make a huge difference. When we were making the film, I think it was Gregg Braden, he said the expression “Choice Point” first. He described it as a window of opportunity-

Dr. Lenny: Yes…. Opportunity!

Harry: … where if you make a decision or choice in that particular window of time, it can have a huge difference in your next life cycle, whereas if you don’t make the choice right then, time just carries on, and it’s too late. That was sort of a very impactful thing for me, because I think often in one’s spiritual evolution, one of the early things, the idea you come across, is this idea of law of attraction. You can be a creator and create anything. I think, as time goes on, you realize about all of these cycles that go on in life and around. Actually, there’s certain times where you can make a decision and bring something incredible into this world, but then if you miss that opportunity it can be much harder.

Dr. Lenny: Not only do you miss the opportunity that life’s bringing — there are never ending Choice Points of possibility and opportunity in nature. Nature’s always changing and moving through its Choice Points. It kind of makes changes and choices quite naturally. It’s built into the natural rhythms of our world, and in people too.

If you look at the body, the body is making choices and going through changes and evolving in itself. But, it’s more. Choice Point, I think, really has a direct application. When Gregg Braden was speaking about it relative to the quantum make-up of our own consciousness, the quantum reality that we find ourselves in these days, where there is opportunity to bring a different experience, to actually change.

Everyone’s been talking about change for many years. There’s that very well-known statement by Gandhi “Be the change in the world that you wish to see” …but, how do you actually choose the changes that are actually going to bring a different experience or a different impact into ourselves, into our own lives, and into the world? Those are the opportunities, I think, that life brings, that we speak about, certainly, in healing, that we know that are those healing crises. In every crisis, there is a Choice Point, a way to choose something different, but that the pattern of that crisis doesn’t continue to repeat itself.

Harry: Absolutely. I guess for the benefit of the listeners, we should probably give people a bit of background of where Choice Point came from and what its main principles are. I guess I’ll start-

Dr. Lenny: [00:05:00] You are the founder of Choice Point. I think you’re the certainly key co-creator. How did you come across it and make the movie Choice Point? What led you to actually make that movie and write that book?

Harry: [00:05:30] Basically, we made this previous film called The Living Matrix, which really looks at this concept of the body feeling and how the body feel is able to basically control cell growth, metabolism, and ensure healing from an information and energy point of view. Just as we were finishing that right at its premiere … people are like, “What’s gonna be your next movie?” So, I was like, “Well, I think it will be mastering the matrix.”

Basically, we set out on this journey to make this other film called Mastering the Matrix, which was basically to try and work out how you can master your life.

We didn’t really want to go down the traditional self-help viewpoint. I also wasn’t very sure on the law of attraction idea, because I thought it had some validity, but I knew from my own life … We ended up building the company NES, because of actually a lot of personal hardship and tragedy. I was bedridden for eight, nine years. Really, why NES ended up working out for me is because out of that hardship and tragedy, we basically got behind a purpose of trying to help other people get better and ended up inventing this system, and then in the process that helped me to get better and build a business. But, it certainly wasn’t through getting a mind map, putting down the one for house and the Ferrari and the jet plane and trying to manifest all this wealth in my life. That definitely wasn’t what happened.

[00:07:30] I was really curious how it really worked for other people who were far more successful than me, like Jean Paul from Paul Mitchell Hair. I think he is the fifth richest man in the States. And then, people like Richard Branson and then Peter Buffett. He’s the son of Warren Buffett, looks after billions under assets. And, also people like Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who’s right at the center of helping Apartheid to end, and also making most people in South Africa forgive and then stopping … maybe not necessarily stopping, but reducing massive amounts of civil war and that side of thing. You already mentioned Gandhi. I was very curious how Gandhi was able to do all this change. Again, that wasn’t through a law of attraction idea.

In short, we just decided, one way to find out: go and interview all of these people, see what they see. And then, interviewing them and putting a film together, you start to come up with some type of philosophy offered that you hopefully think is correct. That ended up a film and a book and, actually, a course. And now, see, the two of us are going do this workshop.

Basically, we came up with this overall Choice Point philosophy, which has three main principles of: “understand your world,” “align your purpose,” and “be the change.”

[00:09:00] To explain that, if we go back to that law of attraction idea. We basically realized in interviewing all of these people that most of these global leaders actually had very significant, you can call it, drama or personal decision points or Choice Points that had happened in their life. But, all of them had basically aligned their purpose with something that was greater than themselves. It was really because they had aligned themselves and their value systems with customer’s perspectives or, obviously, if you’re Desmond Tutu, with the populations, et cetera. Because they had all aligned themselves with greater social trends, they ended up either with fairly significant businesses and also contributing to society in a major way.

So, that really created, I call it, the middle principle of “align your purpose.” Then, the first principle called “understand your world.” In order for you to align your purpose, you can only do that if you really understand these patterns that are going on in the world around you, but also your own internal patterns. And then, through refining that and discovering that, you can basically end up aligning your purpose through that understanding. We are doing this totally out of order, but that’s great.

The third principle you already mentioned was Gandhi’s “be the change.” If you’re fortunate enough to already know what your purpose is, and you’re thinking and you’re working towards it, but there’s a lot of chaos in your life and things aren’t working out, and maybe you’re a bit angry or frustrated or whatever it is, the most likely reason for that is because you are not in alignment with your purpose, i.e., you are not being the change that you want to see in the world, you are not a match to what you’re trying to do. It’s a bit like if you’ve got some type of, say, a solar panel company, because you want clean energy, but you, instead of driving electric car, you drive your gas guzzler.

That’s not necessarily being a match. Or, it could just be all sorts of internal little belief systems or conflicts, the conflict shocks that are playing on in your head that are preventing you from getting there.

So, the more deeper work is to be the change. It often helps to work with a practitioner or a coach, because it’s pretty self-reflecting, and often it helps to work with someone else to help identify that and get through all your blocks, and then you’re well on your way. I guess that’s the short version of what Choice Point is.

Dr. Lenny: Yeah. As you were talking, it’s really not the short version. Everyone wants the short version to aligning purpose. I believe that’s part of the downside of just trying to align with the law of attraction. It’s a good marketing message, and certainly there is truth to it, but I kind of see through what you do-

Harry: Yeah, it’s one law of …

Dr. Lenny: It’s one law.

Harry: Yeah, it’s one law of the universal … It’s basically that matching principle we just talked about. We might as well get into physics, because that’s what we’re here for. In physics, you have this bit of a split. You’ve got the people into quantum physics, and then you’ve got the people in the more Newtonian, cosmic, big physics type of viewpoint. Then, we’ve got us, men, mortal humans sitting in the middle here. So, if we go off to a nice quantum realm, a lot of Buddhist philosophy, things in that quantum idea … If you try to look or try to observe where an electron is, it just appears right there. If you look over here, then appears right there. In quantum physics they call that the Observer Effect. People have extrapolated that out in the self-help world, to that idea of law of attraction. If it works in the quantum realm, it must work everywhere. It’s true, it is a law of physics, but you can’t ignore big physics.

So, if I look up in the sky, and I’m like, “I want the Moon to appear over there,” it doesn’t. It’s still there. I can stare in that bit of a sky as long as I want, I’m not gonna shift the Moon over there. It really comes down to scale or mass. The heavier something is, or the more mass behind it, the more influence it has on you, which, I think, is why things like astrology do actually have an influence on us, because the planets have such a much greater mass than we do. We have such a much greater mass than that tiny little electron, so we can influence that electron, but I’m afraid it doesn’t mean that this law of attraction will suddenly bring all this stuff into our life.

However, as we said, if you align yourself with where patterns are going inside you … You could say Microsoft, whose mission was to put a PC on everyone’s desk … At that time that was a wonderful thing that people wanted, so there was this wider pattern of people wanting a PC, and Microsoft was right in the right place at the right time to provide, so it’s … You could say the same with social networks and Facebook or anything like that. If you put that idea back a hundred years ago, Bill Gates, a hundred years ago, it wouldn’t have worked out in the industrial age. He probably would have been a geek and probably a slave on the railroad. I’m exaggerating! He probably would have done fine. But, the point is the idea wouldn’t have worked out.

Dr. Lenny: Correct. So, there’s some timing involved and cycles involved in nature and cycles in timing and rhythms. Would you say are involved to the Choice Points that appear and the opportunities that are appearing? How does that relate to the individual’s journey? The people you described, the servant-leadership range of individuals that you described … I wouldn’t think that Gandhi had a dream board and was trying to attract the masses so he could be heard! He was following some deeper instinct. You mentioned [crosstalk 00:16:52]-

Harry: He would have been following his core purpose-

Dr. Lenny: [00:17:00] His core purpose. [crosstalk 00:16:58] How do you get to that core purpose, and what does the Choice Point philosophy have to do with discovering the core purpose?

 Not everyone necessarily has the ideals that Gandhi did. He just had an extraordinarily strong purpose, which was basically to free India, so India could be governed by its own people and, obviously, he had all these principles of how he was gonna go that in a peaceful way. His main principle was “Be the change you want to see in the world,” by getting everyone behind that. The British eventually left. But, from a more practical point of view, how do you work that out … There’s a few sort of simple questions you can ask yourself.

There’s two sides to it: you really want to understand your own skillsets and passions or, if you like, your own unique ability. Once you’ve worked through what your unique ability is, the next question … What I mean by “unique ability,” you might be an incredibly talented designer, you might be a great writer, you may be very good at numbers. All of us have certain things we’re really good at and certain things we’re rubbish at. It’s always good just to triple, quadruple, times 10 down on the things you’re really good at, and just not what you’re not.

Once you know what your unique ability is, you could then really go into that secondary phase, and say, “What am I really passionate and interested in, that I can apply my unique ability, in a way that perhaps no one else can?” It doesn’t matter if other people do as well, really. You might be super interested in environmentalism, fashion, health, healing. Obviously, on this podcast a lot of people are gonna be into healing, so that’d be a good one to assume. But, there’s many ways of doing healing. You could be mentally precise and good with your hands, you might be great as a surgeon. Or, you may be better off as a bioenergetic practitioner. You may be better off as a couch, because you’re really empathetic and good with people. So, if you’ve got great emphatic skills and you’re really into healing, become a bioenergetic coach or something like that.

You go through that process. I know [inaudible 00:20:09] would be. But, you can get much more defined than that. There’s various ways of trying to understand these cycles. I have a four-part way. There’s asking questions. That could just be asking people and experts and friends around you; obviously, Google as an amazing resource of answers, so you can do a lot of research through Google. But, there’s also intuition and being able to read signs and that type of thing. Generally, if you combine that sort of intellectual research with the more heart-based intuition and emotional, you’ll probably get to the right answer.

[00:21:00] So, it’s: work out your unique ability, work out which industry or space you’re interested in and how you can apply, and then just really research and dig into that detail. Then, at that point, you can really define and align your purpose. Then, you’re in a great place. Then, obviously, from aligning your purpose, you can … I remember what I call it, “purpose with passion.” I can’t remember, there was some particular stuff in our philosophy. But, basically, you just take action. It was “engage with passion,” you engage with passion, and off you go. 95% of people never even get there.

That will give you times 10 the results of law of attraction, because you’re gonna be in your unique ability, you’re gonna be in the right space that you’re really interested in, you’re gonna have done all your research to really know where this sits with your patterns, so you’re gonna know what to do. And then, you engage with passion. You’re gonna do 10, 20 times better than anyone who’s not going through that. And then, obviously, the last 10% is the “be the change,” where you start looking deep within and try to unblock your patterns. There we go.

Dr. Lenny: Yeah. You outlined it pretty well there. In my experience, Harry, and I really hear what you’re saying, it’s that inner journey, maybe that last 10%, that-

Harry: It’s the last 10% that become the 1000%!

Dr. Lenny: The 1000%, to really go in and have, I would say, the courage to bring one [inaudible 00:23:04] [crosstalk 00:23:04]-

Harry: [00:23:30] Yeah, courage and persistence, because you’re always gonna have steps, steps back on the way. Persistence and courage, they’re such interesting … Actually, that was part of the “be the change.”

When we interviewed a lot of people in the film Choice Point, we mentioned courage. Like Richard Branson, I think we took the characteristic of courage, but basically, we ended up identifying about seven core characteristics that if you develop, would just make a massive difference. There’s so many little beliefs and emotions and all that stuff. Emotions, I don’t know, they don’t necessarily really matter. We can be sad, and we can be happy. We wave all over the shop. But, if you develop these core characteristics, they can basically overcome emotions, so you end up more positive most of the time. You end up with more positive belief systems, et cetera.

I haven’t said what those characteristics are. Let’s see if I remember them. It’s basically like: love, honesty, courage. Do you remember the rest? Willpower … I don’t remember what the base one was. Trust, is that right?

Dr. Lenny: Trust, absolutely.

Harry: I don’t know if I missed any.

Dr. Lenny: Where do emotions come into this philosophy then? Is it trust-

Harry: I’m British, and when you’re British, my lips are very stiff like this. We don’t have any emotions!

Dr. Lenny: When you say there’s an integration of those virtues, those creative virtues?

Harry: [00:25:30] I think we can get [inaudible 00:25:01] at most. There’s so many reasons one can have an emotion. But, what an emotion is, at least to me … In this matching idea, it’s [inaudible 00:25:24]. A little bit like the Observer Effect in quantum physics. If you like, an emotion is an indicator of how closely you are aligned with what you’re doing, your purpose, and what’s going on, if you get angry or sad or experience some of these negative ones, there is generally something a little bit off, but it may not be to the outside world.

Most of the time, you could be off, and that’s why you need to do the deeper work. But, with emotions, you just forgive yourself for them. You observe them, see if you learn out of anything. I don’t worry about it too much, because all sorts of things happen in the day, and our emotions generally vary. But, do you need to concentrate? Like us concentrating on, “I am really sad,” or, “I am really angry. I mustn’t be angry, I mustn’t be sad.” I don’t know if that’s particularly helpful.

Perhaps, what’s going on, when I look at my core characteristics, I’m not actually a very good communicator. I stay in my shell, I don’t really speak my truth. Well, perhaps if you spoke your truth more, you wouldn’t feel frustrated and angry in your emotions. Basically, I think, it’s more important to concentrate on developing your core characteristics. If you do that, you’ll find that your emotions will shift anyway over time. We’re all still gonna experience emotions, but hopefully we can experience more positive ones over time that negative, so that’s the general idea anyway.

Dr. Lenny: [00:27:30] Yeah, I firmly agree with that. I think most of the individuals I’ve seen over 38 years … The greatest confusion is in that emotional body, is in the repetitive pattern of the anger or the repetitive pattern of sadness, sometimes the repetitive pattern of joy, blocking some other aspect of that core being, that core place of that creativity you were speaking about. It is a fuller integration of more positive emotions. But then, looking at what’s positive and what’s negative, how many times have I seen, personally, an individual, a woman who’s afraid to really get into … her fears worry her, and getting to agree to break through the restrictions of the self-limiting beliefs that might be containing her. Or, a man who has some concepts, self-limiting belief about really feeling some deep grief. It’s not just his grief, but it’s the existential grief of the world. It’s the sadness that’s in the world. [crosstalk 00:28:33]-

Harry: How do you help people shift? What’s your methodology?

Dr. Lenny: First, it’s setting a safe enough container, so there can be a trust factor as a practitioner or as a guide, as a guide to take someone through their hero’s journey, to be able to reclaim those lost energies. Not reclaim the victim state, that’s what people do every day, in a general sense stay victimized by something or someone. That’s the way of the world right now, that’s the crisis. I think the crisis keeps coming to us, so that we can make a different choice, which is the opportunity to rise above the crisis, what you were talking about, Harry. To rise above the static emotional state and be passionate about something greater than my emotions.

I’m emoting something that has a very different frequency. That’s what changes the field, that’s what changes. We do provision, as bioenergetic practitioners, we look into the energetic field of an individual. In the field, there are those patterns. Those patterns are held by self-limiting belief systems, as you know, and we see those, comes right up on the screen. For me to be able to point that back to an individual and help them see whatever pattern they cannot change, whatever pattern continues to circle through their life, over and over, whether it be the same kind of relationship, whether it be staying stuck whatever the limiting job is … They’re not getting to their core gifts and their core abilities and their core creativity.

My reference point is that there is a core creativity, there is a core energy, a soul energy if you will, an intelligence that’s beyond just the personality. There’s something that’s driving the human condition. There’s something that is driving our evolution to go forward. That’s the philosophy of Choice Point. It’s so clearly described in your movie, as well as the book-

Harry: Perfect. You mentioned about a scan, but I think for the benefit… we probably haven’t explained it. Perhaps you could describe how a bioenergetic scan helps people make better choices, and how that relates to healing.

Dr. Lenny: [00:31:30] Yeah, that brings a whole another principle into our dialog, which is the principle that we have an energy field, and energy governs matter. Matter doesn’t govern itself. This is part of the new quantum awakening. Awakening to a quantum reality is that there is a quantum field that governs a mechanical field, so it’s that shift that we’ve been talking about for well over 20 years, probably 30 years and longer. But now, it’s an established paradigm, it’s well-established that we live in a universe that’s constantly changing, and the bigger change is the shift from mechanical- based universe to a quantum-based universe.

The shift in our thinking is … When I say “our,” I mean the collective field. It’s broken through, it’s an established thought form now. It’s part of dialog all over. When you look at it, quantum physics and quantum thinking, the quantum mindset, the quantum field is very much present right now. I asked the question, “Well, what is that? Why is that now in 2017? We were talking about that in 1917.” These principles were just beginning to be postulated. Einstein and his group of colleagues were just beginning to observe the principle. Now, we’re embodying the principle. So, you say, “Well, how does that affect healing?” One way it affects healing is that we recognize that there’s a field that governs the body, the matter. It’s not just the matter that matters-

Harry: The Body-Field!

Dr. Lenny: The Body-Field! And that’s a new concept, based on a principle that’s an eternal principle, it’s a greater principle. We didn’t create that principle, but we’re learning to align with that principle. In that principle, there’s inherent purpose. The purpose of that field is to stay self-organized, to be self-generative. But, the only way it stays, the Body-Field where the human body stays health-organized, it can self- organize itself. That’s healing. It can reorganize itself, it can redirect energy, it can renew matter and cells. It does that because it’s aligned with a greater purpose, and the purpose is not just healing. Healing is a part of a greater principle.

[00:34:00] The way I’ve discovered and learned, that principle is creation. We are here as creators, so we are here to create the world anew, not to create the world the same, but to create the world anew. That principle is fiercely running through all of the human endeavor, with the invitation to rise up and change. As you said, don’t stay stuck in that victim consciousness, whether it be sadness … You can be a victim and be overjoyed, you’re constantly overjoyed. And then, in a state of complete denial, “Hey, the world around you is in crisis, and I’m a joyful person.” There are times when different forces needed to break through that resistance. That mash you were talking about, those masses in the universe … There’s a mass that’s greater than … There’s something that is attracting. The law of attracting is a greater mass than the law of attraction, a greater force. That force is inside each person, that’s their creative force, the force to be a creator in my world.

Now, that requires awakening beyond healing. There’s a question I used to ask people when I became confident enough, after being in practice for a number of years, “We can partner up and we can engage in a healing partnership. And, when you do heal that irritation in your gut or that migraine headache that you’ve had for most of your life, or whatever the crisis is that keeps repeating itself, when you do decide to heal it and not treat it, but heal it, then how will your life change? What actually will change?” That level, to invite a person to inquire within, that’s part of the hero’s journey, that I believe, as bioenergetic practitioners, we are charged to actually invite an individual into, so that they can really self-organize, reorganize themselves from the inside-

[00:36:30] Harry: What’s so interesting is … Choice Point is slightly developed. Choice Point was developed through [inaudible 00:36:27] the outside of the Body-Field healing and really as a methodology to help people make wiser choices. Obviously, it’s great for their own lives, but also they can go on to make a difference in the world. Where it gets so interesting is, after we developed Choice, then we started integrating it into field and healing methodology.

For the benefit of listeners, you just can’t separate mind from body, therefore you can’t separate the choices you make from either your physical body or the Body-Field that we’re talking about, the Body-Field being what controls your body and obviously the Body-Field completely.

Your force and choices are actually part of the Body-Field. A force is just information and energy, your Body-Field is just information and energy. What’s so interesting, if you go and see a bioenergetic practitioner, what you’re able to do is actually interact with your force from a more physical point of view. You can take electrotherapy scan that we were talking about. You can scan your mind, see what its limitations and see which core characteristics you need to develop. You can see or I can guide you in how to work your Body-Field… But it also links it to your physical bodies, you can then get an electrotherapy device, treat on that particular area of the body, and then by doing that, you’ve got this direct connection between mind and body.

When you make that connection between mind and body, you can both shift a physical ailment, and you can shift the consciousness that’s related or might have caused that physical ailment. If you have the right coach who can talk you through and help you see the consciousness that was behind that, you can shift those core characteristics [inaudible 00:38:41] and have an understanding of what created that manifestation in the physical body. Just incredible things can happen.

I’m actually quite looking forward to this workshop, because we’re all gonna do all these techniques on each other in a very safe, contained environment. We developed all this stuff, so it’s really nice to be in a group and see what happens.

Dr. Lenny: Yeah, it is. We’ll have a couple of days together, where we can explore the inner journey, as well as really define what we want our outer journey to look like. I think there is the distinction, as you started this dialog, Harry, between … You can’t ignore the inner journey and believe you can just get a hold of a creative principle called the law of attraction without paying attention to those mass forces in our own unconscious that are working directly against what we think we want.

Harry: It’s very interesting, because in life, even in a year … I could take some big businesses as an example. I’m gonna totally make this up on the spot. If you take Apple, for example, there’s probably just a few key decisions that Steve Jobs made, and most of the decisions don’t necessarily matter, like the idea to create the iPhone or to cut back on all these other rubbish computers and just focus on the one when he came back. I don’t know, I think Disney was the same, pretty much any company.

But, it’s also in our life or within our own jobs. So much of the work we do, unfortunately, happens in companies with thousands of employees. Most of 90% of the work is honestly completely wasted, doesn’t see the light of the day, total waste of time. Where I’m going with this is, if you have a better methodology of making wiser decisions, you just don’t waste out on all that time. You don’t actually need to work, you don’t need to work harder with that time. You can just have [crosstalk 00:41:16] If we were all living like that where we could all just go on holiday or do exercises. We could do the things that are more interesting to us. Time spent getting wise and being really selective choices, I couldn’t tell you not.

Dr. Lenny: [00:41:30] Right. We can become masters. We can master that inner game, as well as the outer game, become masters at making clear choices on a day-to-day basis. Many people go through life, and never make that one choice that would actually create the change that they desire-

Harry: You can [crosstalk 00:41:57] new purpose, I’m gonna become a master of making the right choice, I love that! I’m gonna think about that.

Dr. Lenny: Isn’t that about mastering these capacities that we’ve been talking about is about? It’s about, mastering my thoughts, master of the ship, who’s driving the ship. And that’s where the Choice Point course, the actual course itself, invites, initiates actually, initiates an individual-

Harry: You’ve come to the crux of the thing of free will and destiny. Sort of an observation, but we have this illusion of free will. If you think you’ve got free will, because you don’t necessarily have the wisdom to know which choice … If you don’t have wisdom, you don’t know what choice to make, and therefore you think you have free will, because there’s all these [inaudible 00:43:10], but in actual fact, your life is probably more being blown around like a leaf. The wiser you are, the more you understand the world around you, the patterns that are going on around you, the more it’s actually like destiny and free will start to disappear, and life is more like destiny. [crosstalk 00:43:40]

[00:43:30] Dr. Lenny:  Right. Will is free, authentic will is free. It’s the story around it that’s restricted it. The story in my mind, in a person’s mind, the conditions that we’ve come into, the old story, whatever that looks like. In the Bible, it’s called the Book of Life.

Your story is in your book, and your book of life is in the field, it’s in the human Body-Field. Our story, the memory, the imprints, the conditions, all of it is there in the field. That’s why the methodology we’re talking about, you don’t have to go through 10 years of therapy to figure out what you could see and make a different choice in a short period of time. Now, there’s always a great proofing cycle. There is instantaneous change, and what’s led up to that instantaneous change is a whole cycle before it that prepares that quantum leap, sort to speak

So, it’s both. We live in a quantum reality where change can happen in a moment, we choose it in our mind, and then there’s just working through those patterns that are in the nature of our world, human nature, not just the authentic nature, but how we’ve been conditioned. I find, Harry, there is this struggle within, the struggle that people come in with. It’s a good struggle, because it’s a struggle that’s inviting a person to really go deeper and discover your purpose, align your purpose, and then deliver your purpose into the world.

Harry: How’s that evolved for you in your career? These cycles and choices. I don’t even know. What’s been your two most major Choice Points that shaped your life?

[00:46:00] Dr. Lenny: I think a major Choice Point was certainly when I chose to go into the chiropractic field. At that point, I had gone through a professional football career, I had gone through college, and I was on a certain trajectory that I wasn’t even completely conscious of why I was on it. I was passionate to be on it, very passionate to be on that trajectory, to play a game and to be playing at that level. And then, once that was gone, there was another opportunity. I didn’t have the tools to know how to make that transition. I remember, for me, I moved into quite a depression. I didn’t even realize it was a depression. Everything was kind of dimmed down a bit, dumbed down and dimmed down. Everything got a little dimmer. Something was guiding me. Everyone has a story, I think everyone is in their hero’s journey, if we can awaken to it.

The next step led me to go in a chiropractic school. What I didn’t get until I got in there was, the reason I went to chiropractic school wasn’t just to become a chiropractor. It was to meet an individual who then introduced me to another community outside the chiropractic community. That was my spiritual initiation, 18 years of really going through an educational initiation process and realize that we live in a bioenergetic universe, and that we are bioenergetic beings. So, I came into chiropractic waken to the fact that there is an inherent principle that drives the human condition to evolve. We call that “innate” in chiropractic, innate intelligence and universal intelligence. But, having that awareness and doing energetic healing in my first day of practice … I was always practicing from an energetic model. That was a key Choice Point. So, here I though I was going into chiropractic, and what I was really getting into was the doorway of chiropractic introducing me to the bioenergetic field of medicine.

Now, 38 years later, we have technologies that help us with the methodology of assisting others, not only heal where the imprint, where that imperfection is in the field, but actually be able to give people tools to change their story, to actually transform their story, to give them an opportunity to see clearly as practitioners. I think this is a whole another mindset of what a healer is.

A healer, in the old paradigm, is someone who just diagnoses and treats, whether you’re conventional or even … A chiropractor is one who assesses where the subluxation is, and then just adjusts and treats. A massage therapist is someone who figures out where those restrictions are, then rubs them out. An acupuncturist is where you figure the blocks out. But, there’s a greater context of all of that, which is awakening to purpose, wakening to a larger purpose that we are part of something much larger.

Harry: Do people come into your clinic with a knee pain, and once they’ve known you for a few weeks or months, they walk out with new purpose? I’m curious. [crosstalk 00:49:36] Do you take them on that journey from physical part through to helping them understand their [crosstalk 00:49:49]?

Dr. Lenny: [00:50:00] I do, I do. And what I realized is, to do that effectively, I have to have a system in place. For many years, as a practitioner … I’ve gone through my own evolution to be able to understand what it takes, because if you’re coming to me, and you think you’re going to an Italian restaurant to get some good Italian food, and I’m trying to serve you up some good sushi, there’s some incongruence there!

So, to be on your purpose and then deliver it clearly, after 38 years, I’m a bit clearer now, I am clearer. People who are coming to me now, they are not coming in with knee pain. They are coming in, because they know what doesn’t work. They want to make a different choice, and they know that whatever is going on in their body, they don’t want to necessarily just treat. They’re coming in, because they want to discover.

A case in point is, a woman comes in to see me six weeks ago, and she goes, “I don’t know who I am.” She’s sitting in front of me now, and she knows, “I don’t know who I am, but I’ve heard that you could help me with what’s going on in my body, and you do something different. You have a different methodology-

Harry: Perfect. [crosstalk 00:51:19] Do you see people through … You can help them through Skype? How do people find you?

Dr. Lenny: People find me. After doing this 38 years, there’s certainly a referral-

Harry: [crosstalk 00:51:32] I mean, for the listeners.

Dr. Lenny: Oh, for the listeners! [crosstalk 00:51:35] Yeah, if you go to, my website, you can connect with me that way. That’s probably the best way, just drop me an email through there, and then I’ll get back to you.

Why I’m still doing this in 38 years? And you know this, Harry, I think. I see as a purpose-driven individual. I mean, look what you’ve created. People who align with you are purpose-driven, that’s what I’ve gotten to know with the people, the community in NES.

To have purpose and to align with purpose, whether it’s authentic or not, if I believe it’s my purpose and that belief system is then supported by the law of attraction, it’s gonna attract to me those elements in my world, the resources, the people with resources, the support that supports my purpose.

And if my purpose is aligned with serving others, that’s serving leadership mindset, if I’m aligned with wanting to be a contributing factor and to assist changing the world … I just can’t have a bright idea of how I think the world should change, I know how I should change and what I have to contribute! The gifts that you contribute, the gifts you have, that we contribute the gifts we have, then that world will change.

Harry: [00:53:30] The deeper you go into changing yourself, the more works out. I couldn’t tell you how much that is true. Even in making Choice Point … This is gonna sound peculiar, but we had NES and when we were making Choice Point it was quite an expensive endeavor. The company went into lots of debt while we were doing it. My health deteriorated as well. Peter, our co-founder of NES, died. We changed countries. Basically, we created like a combustion engine of Choice Points, all at the same time.

Honestly, we [inaudible 00:53:46]. Obviously, that was a little bit of a negative experience, but to dig out of it, we basically had to look within and just develop these areas where our core characteristics were not particularly good [crosstalk 00:54:07] and really build back out. But, we built back out through building within. That was the most [crosstalk 00:54:18]-

Dr. Lenny: That’s profound, Harry. That’s beautiful. You built it back out by building and looking within. I didn’t know the details of that, but what you modeled there was and is the hero’s journey, the NES entity to come into the world. Look at what you had to go through. I see that. To go through what is called the hero’s journey was … not Bill Moyers, but Joseph Campbell. He was the guy, the one to embody that terminology that in all the myths of all the cultures and the stories that we see passed down from generation to generation, there is a central theme, and that theme is the hero’s journey, to start without and then go within and then come back out, in this constant circle. That’s the relationship that I see in the human Body-Field, the information that could take a person, invite a person to go in, clarify what’s not being clearly embraced, so that they can have the power to make a different choice and then come back out and go into the world.

Sometimes, the world they go into is a different world based on the choices they’ve made. They have to leave that world, that they weren’t really living in, but just existing in. I think that is a phenomenon that happens on an individual level, and I think it’s happening at a global level now, the strife and the struggle we see to really get hold. But, what I was impressed with what you just said is just, I would ask you: what did you have to retrieve and embrace to come back out after all of that, so that NES today could be a thriving business and hitting the next level of coming into the world? What did you have to get a hold of to do that? That is a story! You can talk about that in the two days that we’re together. That’s the heat of what drives-

Harry: [crosstalk 00:56:45] Quite a lot of things. There’s many aspects, from a money aspect … You have accountants telling you that you’re pretty much bankrupt, and we’re maxed out on all the overdrafts and all of that. Also in my head, I’m like, “Well, I could think that and focus on that, and it’s probably game over, or … I’ll finish that bit. Or, no, we’re gonna go here and this is how the future looks. I’m just gonna ignore those terrible bank balances, because if I focus on that, I’m not focusing on my energy to building out or basically building out the community.” So, that’s what we did. It’s half, maybe half [inaudible 00:57:36]. I had a sort of a relapse of our chronic fatigue, I was getting paralysis and I nearly ended up in a coma, and I vomit up a lot. It’s basically like Addison’s disease. I had a very limited amount of energy per day to do this. The action I took, I had to be very careful.

I can’t remember what else I was gonna say, it was something about … Actually, at the time, this was a curious thing to say, we were doing a podcast around Choice Point … We had Choice Point, which was consuming a lot of money, and it was sort of ready. It would take a lot of money to finish it. And then, we had NES, which was this incredible health company. But, with very limited energy and really no resources at that point, we could only really choose one. So, I basically put Choice Point on pause, hence we never really brought it out to the world. We basically never brought it out. We finished the whole thing, but didn’t bring it out. So, we just put all our attention into NES, so that was one thing. But, like characteristics-wise, certainly rebuilding up. You have to rebuild up, having a lot of trust-

Dr. Lenny: Trust in yourself.

Harry: … trust in yourself and other people, but it’s like faith. Faith is this most incredible thing. The universe conspires to help you when you have that faith. You have to have faith in these dire circumstances. And the whole persistence, faith, courage. They’re all one of the same type of thing. So, that was one characteristic, definitely. We got back to grips. Communication is a huge one. I’ve never been a natural communicator per se, but the only way to get a message out to the world is to … [inaudible 00:59:48] I can’t remember what they’re called, but I did lessons, I joined Toastmasters and did lessons and [crosstalk 00:59:57]

Dr. Lenny: Would you say you’ve found your voice, you claimed your voice?

Harry: Oh, I reclaimed a voice. It’s probably not necessarily ever my unique ability, but my unique ability is more vision and philosophy. I’ve probably got some great mind method or [inaudible 01:00:17]. That is probably more in my unique ability, as a thinker or as a visionary. But, of course, that’s absolutely no use if no one else understands it-
… going from vision to learning how to more clearly communicate with other people. My top unique ability would be, I guess, creation, vision, philosophy-

Dr. Lenny: Vision, right.

Harry: … but communication isn’t, but it’s completely necessary, otherwise it’s just bullshit in your head, isn’t it? It doesn’t go anywhere, it doesn’t go anywhere.

Dr. Lenny: Right.

Harry: So, that was definitely something I’m trying to develop out for the last few years, we still are. Life is a big journey like that. I think we’ve probably talked for quite a while-

Dr. Lenny: I think we’ve-

Harry: [01:01:30] So, we should probably wrap up and give people the highlights. If you want to watch the movie and also Lenny might be doing webinars, we’ve got the Choice Point course, which is on If you’re [inaudible 01:01:38] when you’re listening to this, but if it’s early in 2017, Lenny and I are doing a Choice Point workshop. Do you know the date, Lenny?

Dr. Lenny: February … is it 18th, 19th?

Harry: I don’t know. That’s terrible.

Dr. Lenny: Saturday, Sunday. So, I think that’s the 18th and 19th.

Harry: [01:02:00] Yeah. So, Saturday and Sunday, the 18th and 19th. Anyways, we will be running Choice Point workshops probably one or twice a year, which you can see on the website and the Choice Point Movement website. And then, if you want to get in contact with Lenny directly, that was on … was it

Dr. Lenny: Yeah,

Harry: Perfect. All these details will be in show notes at the bottom. Thank you very much, Lenny. That was great.

Dr. Lenny: Oh, thanks, Harry. Yeah, this was great. We just began to heat the fire up. That will bring into those two days in February for sure. It’s a passion that I know I’ve learned and discovered. I’ve discovered that you and I share when we get together, there’s always a stepping off point that we both get pretty passionate about.

Harry: Yeah, [crosstalk 01:02:57] got questions for us … Obviously, this isn’t a live event right now. But, if people have got questions for us, please feel free to email us!

Dr. Lenny: Yeah!

Harry: Email them either to Lenny or back to the podcast email address. I’m sure we’ll do another podcast when we-

Dr. Lenny: We’ll do another one.

Harry: … could answer people’s questions, which would be great.

Dr. Lenny: Yeah. Yeah, just stay connected. Stay connected today, it’s very important. We invite you to stay connected with the Choice Point community.

Harry: Yeah, you can find us on Facebook too. Perfect.

Dr. Lenny: Okay. Thanks, Harry.

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